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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Regarding disabled parking

647 replies

appendix · 21/05/2024 09:59

I work for a small company. We have office space in a small building which houses a number of other companies. There is just about enough adequate parking for all employees in terms of number of spaces.
Here is where I think I've messed up. I'm operations manager. The company is too small to have HR (we outsource things like payroll) so often HR adjacent queries end up with me.

We have 2 disabled employees. One (Sue) has significantly mobility limitations and uses a big motorised wheelchair. The other (Lynda) has less significant mobility issues (ie doesn't need a wheelchair, can walk small distances.) Both are have blue badges.

There are 3 disabled spaces in the carpark. One can be discounted as it's always in use by an employee of another company in the building who starts work very early. Out of the remaining 2 only one is big enough to accommodate Sue's needs (electric ramp for a big wheelchair etc). The issue we have is that Lynda insists on parking in it. She gets to work earlier than Sue who has childcare limitations and always parks there. It's causing a lot of frustration and ill will, especially as the other non wheelchair sized space is actually closer to the entrance, so it seems a perverse choice.

There has been a lot of grumbling among staff about this. It was especially bad a few days ago when Sue had to call for assistance - she had to get out of her car at the entrance and a colleague had to park her vehicle for her. Lynda sits watching this. Other staff members have spoken to her and asked if she could park in the other, closer space but she refuses.

Note- Sue and Lynda have clashed a bit over the years- there's only one disabled loo on our floor and yet they seem to always need it at the same time etc. I've been reliably informed that Lynda won't park close to the entrance because then her start and leave times will be visible to everyone- the other larger space is around a bend and can be accessed via a side door so her in and outs are not visible.

Anyway, we have spoken multiple times to the people who own the offices. They give no shits. The car park is apparently compliant in terms of spaces and they're not prepared to do anything more.

Our company owner has now said that whichever employee gets in first needs to park next to her reserved space and let reception know. When Sue arrives the person in the space next to the reserved one nips out, moves their car and Sue parks across both spaces. Owner then just parks where she can find a space.

It's not ideal especially in the rain. It's caused massive ill will towards Lynda who has just come to me and said she feels she's being bullied due to her disability. (She's not being included in lunch orders or social stuff organised by staff themselves, although she is fully included in terms of her job.) Honestly the company owner doesn't feel particularly warm towards her.

I'm not a HR person. I felt that as she wasn't being excluded in terms of work etc there's not a lot I can do about people liking her and I pretty much told her that. I was talking to a friend about it though and they said we could actually be in trouble for not including her in lunches/ social things, especially as it's because of issues caused by a disability. (She's invited to all work organised events, just not informal staff drinks / lunches/ chats/ coffee rounds organised by the staff)

I'm going to suggest getting some HR advice but was I wrong?

OP posts:
LordSnot · 21/05/2024 11:00

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 10:54

Honestly - if Lynda was here posting about how she felt bullied at work for using a parking space she was entitled to use and that staff were now leaving her out of the (unofficial) office coffee rounds and lunches then I think the advice she'd be getting would be to look for a new job and speak to legal representation

If she gave the same details as the OP she'd be told to stop being a selfish twat and use the other space.

Ginslings · 21/05/2024 11:02

Would the third space (that the employee from the other company uses), be suitable for Sue? If so, has anyone politely asked them if they wouldn't mind using the other space instead?

useruserna · 21/05/2024 11:03

Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 10:37

So I'm not familiar with the situation on private land.

I do know that on the road, you can't have a disabled space that is just for you.

So if someone wants a disabled space e outside their house, they can apply to the council to get one but then anyone with a blue badge can park there, you can't "save" it in any way (with bollards or whatever) for you.

As your company doesn't own the car park and the company that does apparently does not want to get involved (quite correctly in my view) you cannot take the obvious solution which is to paint out a different double space for Sue. You also can't put up bollards or anything like that as your company doesn't own the car park.

I suspect that you will find that if someone parks in the bigger blue badge space to "save" it for Sue that Lynda will complain to the owners of the building and that person will (correctly) have action taken against them for parking in a blue badge space without a blue badge.

Your company is on very thin ice in trying to adjudicate over who "gets" a more preferable space in a car park that doesn't belong to you and where the legal presumption is first come first served.

Some councils (in London at least) do allocate disabled on street parking spaces that are just for one specific disabled person. (They paint a permit number by the bay.) Not saying this affects the OP's situation, but just adding for info.

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 11:04

LordSnot · 21/05/2024 11:00

If she gave the same details as the OP she'd be told to stop being a selfish twat and use the other space.

She might by a couple of people

But she'd also be told by plenty of others she was using a space she was entitled to use

She might also give more details which explain why she needed to use the space

theilltemperedclavecinist · 21/05/2024 11:05

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 10:54

Honestly - if Lynda was here posting about how she felt bullied at work for using a parking space she was entitled to use and that staff were now leaving her out of the (unofficial) office coffee rounds and lunches then I think the advice she'd be getting would be to look for a new job and speak to legal representation

I expect posters would ask her why, when theres a better choice available, she opts to park in the only space that's suitable for her more seriously disabled colleague. I can't imagine what her answer could be.

TwoBlueFish · 21/05/2024 11:05

Lynda appears to be being selfish but may have a reason that she uses that space that she doesn’t want to disclose. Big boss has a named space, could they ask if the space adjacent could also be reserved with Sue’s name. Sue uses both spaces then everyone else plays pot luck with the remaining spaces. I would get some HR advice though.

DancefloorAcrobatics · 21/05/2024 11:09

I'd arrange a meeting with Linda.& her line manager to find out if she has a specific need for the larger space. If yes, do as boss suggested...
If not, just assign a fixed parking space to each employee in a general email.
Wording something like due to the confusion over parking spaces recently we have decided... bla bla bla with clear diagram attachment.

maudelovesharold · 21/05/2024 11:11

Pastlast · 21/05/2024 10:33

I think if she is being excluded from stuff and can relate it back to her disability then absolutely you need specific HR advice on this.

Doesn’t it relate more to the fact that she’s behaving like an entitled brat?

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 11:12

It's a shared car park with other users of the building, not from the company, I'm not sure the company can assign spaces because visitors or staff from the other companies could use them

BaiIey · 21/05/2024 11:14

Lynda is an utter prick, she's not being left out due to her disability she's being left out because she's an outright twat.

YouJustDoYou · 21/05/2024 11:15

Linda is a massive bitch. I second the penguin bollard with key thing.

Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 11:16

So to clarify - as the company does not own the car park they can't assign spaces etc.

More generally, to the op - yes your company would potentially be liable for a disability discrimination claim based on how the other members of staff are behaving.

You know Lynda has a disability. (Blue badge)

You know she is being excluded from informal work-related events based at least partially on that disability (if she wasn't disabled there wouldn't be a problem ergo...)

General law on this is here with some description (relates to specific examples but hopefully still
Useful )

www.stammeringlaw.org.uk/employment/in-job/harassment-employment/

See also this case where a mother in maternity leave not invited to an informal staff party won damages.

www.winstonsolicitors.co.uk/blog/invite-all-staff-christmas-party

SirAlfredSpatchcock · 21/05/2024 11:18

Is it possible to increase the security provision and instal an additional CCTV camera that just happens to clearly capture anybody who happens to use the side door next to the bigger disabled space at all times?

Lynda is being nasty - and, in spite of her protests to the contrary, she is discriminating against disabled people. If most folk can use a 'standard' space, because they don't need the extra space/location of a disabled space; is no different from Lynda being able to use the smaller/closer disabled space, because she doesn't need the extra space of the larger disabled space.

She is doing to Sue exactly what I'm sure she'd be horrified if everybody else did to her, if they took the smaller disabled space when the bigger one was already in use.

I am disabled, but I am not a blue badge holder and I realise that I am more 'privileged' in that respect than many people who are considerably more disabled than I am. If there is a space that meets all of your own needs, that is almost always left available for you, it would take an especially unpleasant person to ignore their own ideal provision and deliberately deprive a more disabled person of the same dignity, for no benefit whatsoever (except for maybe swinging the lead or falsifying your time sheets).

LittleLegsKeepGoing · 21/05/2024 11:21

It's definitely time to get some concrete HR advice on how to navigate this. Not getting this right will cost a huge amount more in money and risk reputational damage too.

Whilst Lynda is being an arsehole...and being an arsehole reaps consequences, her having a disability and being frozen out because she uses a car parking spot she's entitled to use is leading your company into very tricky territory.

Likewise, Sue's needs aren't being met by the facilities available so some more leg work needs to be done with the owners of the car park from that perspective. Challenge them on the suitability of disabled parking if it cannot accomodate normal mobility assist devices.

Best of luck, this looks like a headache to sort out.

appendix · 21/05/2024 11:23

Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 10:19

You need to be very careful.

Lynda has not said but there may be a reason why she needs the bigger space that she does not want to share with you,

If she has a medical need for the bigger space then you could end up in very difficult circumstances especially as the staff of the company seem to be bullying her for it.

I think if there was a medical need she's definitely have told us. The other space is better for her in terms of her comings and goings and she doesn't care less about Lynda.

OP posts:
mrsbyers · 21/05/2024 11:29

Make another spot a disabled bay and debadge the larger one but mark as reserved for the person who needs it.

Make both bays the same size ?

remove the disabled bay from the side entrance completely and have two larger bays at front of building

appendix · 21/05/2024 11:29

DoreenonTill8 · 21/05/2024 10:20

I've been reliably informed that Lynda won't park close to the entrance because then her start and leave times will be visible to everyone- the other larger space is around a bend and can be accessed via a side door so her in and outs are not visible.
Who's reliably informed you of this?

This is another can of worms.
We're a pretty flexible organisation in terms of managing your time- people come and go as needed- it's fine to leave early for an appointment and we're trusted to get the work done and roughly make up the hours.
Sue's line manager (who had to leave a client meeting in the rain to move her car!) has been keeping a closer eye on her. She's definitely abusing the flexibility. Parking down the side no one was ever clear when she arrived, so her leaving between 3-4 seemed reasonable when there was an assumption she'd been here early. This isn't really the case. She's arriving 8.30 ish, leaving 3.00 ish and has also been publicly complaining about her workload.
Her manager wants to start a conversation with her about this but I think it's an absolute minefield. There could be a reason relating to her disability meaning she needs more accommodation- but she hasn't told us.

OP posts:
appendix · 21/05/2024 11:30

Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 10:37

So I'm not familiar with the situation on private land.

I do know that on the road, you can't have a disabled space that is just for you.

So if someone wants a disabled space e outside their house, they can apply to the council to get one but then anyone with a blue badge can park there, you can't "save" it in any way (with bollards or whatever) for you.

As your company doesn't own the car park and the company that does apparently does not want to get involved (quite correctly in my view) you cannot take the obvious solution which is to paint out a different double space for Sue. You also can't put up bollards or anything like that as your company doesn't own the car park.

I suspect that you will find that if someone parks in the bigger blue badge space to "save" it for Sue that Lynda will complain to the owners of the building and that person will (correctly) have action taken against them for parking in a blue badge space without a blue badge.

Your company is on very thin ice in trying to adjudicate over who "gets" a more preferable space in a car park that doesn't belong to you and where the legal presumption is first come first served.

Absolutely this. We're not saving the space. She's been informally asked if she'd park in the other more convenient one but she won't so there's nothing we can do.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 11:30

@appendix

The problem you face is that you're risking a lot based on being sure Lynda would have told you.

Imagine this sequence of events:

Lynda resigns.

She goes to a lawyer and they claim unfair dismissal due to disability discrimination (which you have said is happening)

Your company chooses not to settle and to go to tribunal

In court Lynda reveals that she has condition X which is far worse than Sue's condition.

You are ordered to pay lots of money and in addition the press have a field day calling you vile people who hate disabled people.

Are you THAT sure she's told you?

This is why people have HR. Regardless of what the population at large think, the law is quite clear. Lynda is being excluded from informal events. It is clearly to do with her disability. If she chooses to get nasty about this your company is potentially in a lot of trouble.

Get HR in to deal with it. You need advice because the law and what ordinary people think is ok are NOT the same.

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 11:31

mrsbyers · 21/05/2024 11:29

Make another spot a disabled bay and debadge the larger one but mark as reserved for the person who needs it.

Make both bays the same size ?

remove the disabled bay from the side entrance completely and have two larger bays at front of building

It's not their car park though

Which is the issue

If it was then they could make the spaces bigger, assign everyone a space etc

SirAlfredSpatchcock · 21/05/2024 11:31

You know Lynda has a disability. (Blue badge)

You know she is being excluded from informal work-related events based at least partially on that disability (if she wasn't disabled there wouldn't be a problem ergo...)

Her lack of people feeling inclined to treat her as a friend has been caused as a result of her deliberate actions in creating unnecessary problems for Sue, which would most definitely not affect Sue if she were not disabled.

Disability is clearly on a wide spectrum. It is not a competition to see how much worse you can make more-disabled people's lives for no purpose or benefit whatsoever - by taking huge advantage of your 'luck' in being disabled, but having fewer resulting needs than others.

Whether disabled or not, at work or not; nobody can force other people to like them and to do them favours, especially if it's their own behaviour which strongly disinclines people to want to do so.

I wonder whether, as well as Lynda ignoring her own suitable space and taking Sue's space instead 'just because she can', she may also not be flavour of the month if she keeps coming in late, leaving early or going for extra-long breaks and thus forcing the others to work more to cover for her? I don't know if it has been established that the 'secret' doorway is Lynda's reason for taking that space, but it doesn't sound like there's another reason.

appendix · 21/05/2024 11:32

Hoppinggreen · 21/05/2024 10:41

Some one once told me that if you think getting proper HR/Legal advice is expensive see how much NOT getting it could cost you.

I'll use this in conversation with the owner! She's pretty annoyed especially as we are a great company to be working for- she set it up in a very male dominated field after getting screwed over at work one too many times and she's reasonable, nice, flexible and disability/ family friendly. This intransigence is baffling

OP posts:
44PumpLane · 21/05/2024 11:33

Could you start a system for all employees where they have to note their start and end time with reception, so if you come in through the side door you'd have to pop along to reception to log in your time?

Stress that you're doing it for fire safety so you know who is in and out.

What do the work contracts say about flexible working, I'm able to work flexibly and it's fine if one week I work under, but it's because the next week I'd be working over my hours. If she's consistently working under her hours that needs to be raised formally (you Def need outside HR for this). She may need a reasonable accomodation for her disability but she would need to raise this not just sneakily work 90 minutes less every day as that's essentially fraud.

appendix · 21/05/2024 11:33

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 10:49

Lynda isn't doing anything wrong as such. Disabled spaces are disabled spaces and can be used by anyone with a blue badge. What if a different company had a visitor who needed a disabled space and used one of them for example?

Deliberately leaving one member of staff out of social events (especially things like coffee rounds IN the office) can be construed as workplace bullying. Leaving her out because she happens to use a disabled space she is entitled to use would look even worse

Oh dear. This is where I think I've messed up. I basically said she's being treated professionally and we can't force people to like/ socialise with her.

OP posts:
appendix · 21/05/2024 11:34

aodirjjd · 21/05/2024 10:49

Something doesn’t seem right here. How can the space be legally compliant if she can’t use it for her wheelchair?

if it was the company car park you could say as a reasonable adjustment the disabled colleagues needs a guaranteed space and you could allocate accordingly but since it’s not your car park I don’t think you can do this. Especially since it’s got multiple companies in it. What’s the plan if one of the other offices gets another disabled employee?

tread carefully in regards to bullying claim. Be very careful with what you say there.

For reasons unecessary to explain it is a very big wheelchair and the spaces are the minimum size.

OP posts: