Is this weird

[isthisodd4]

DP and I have a toddler. Family close by and see them very regularly. So very close knit. Our DC very lucky in that they have a raised ‘by village’ type feel when we visit. Large family of parents, siblings and partners. Large house (which becomes relevant to how the following happens so easily before you ask how my child is not within my arms at all moments).

So here’s the thing. SILs OH always walks off with our toddler. 99% of the time this happens they are within visual eye range so whilst I find it a bit odd it’s mundane enough that I haven’t raised it.

But there’s been a few incidents over time which have really grated on me and not sat well.

To name a few; the first which set off my odd-dar was when they were an immobile baby and we were like where are they !?!? And turns out he was in the middle of the garden rocking the baby all alone. That was the first where I was just like what?! After rushing round a house trying to find my child.

The most recent time was we were all in a holiday home and again I realise these two are MIA. There’s one lounge in this home so it’s been a matter of 2-3 minutes. Searched the whole house. Find him leading him down the street about to turn onto another!!

That was the final straw for me and I said to DP to watch it also. Make sure they weren’t alone at all together.

DP was recently with family post this incident and having coffee. And again they kept walking off round the square. Back and forth to the table. DP could see them so thought don’t want to make an issue but after the third time lost his patience and said bring him here. And they ignored and started walking off again. At which point partner had to make a bit of a scene with raised voice firm tone in a cafe to again say not to walk off.

I don’t know. I don’t like it. This whole time I have assumed it’s some odd performative parenting thing of ‘oo look how good I am with children’ and it’s grated but I have tried to ignore.

Now it’s getting to the point where it’s feeling weird. I don’t think he’s a sexual predator or a serial killer or anything like that. But it’s starting to feel like a weird controlling thing. Why would you lead someone’s kid off somewhere when you know the parents don’t want you to. And if every time you do, you are immediately found and the child taken back swiftly with often quite short tone of ‘We didn’t know where they were’ would you not get the hint. It’s really weirding me out. Someone can’t be that socially unaware.

And I have no idea how to address this because obviously I do not want to upset SIL.

Is this weird?

I don’t think he’s a sexual predator or a serial killer or anything like that.

Serial killers are very rare. Sexual predators are very common. Statistically, you know one.

At which point partner had to make a bit of a scene with raised voice firm tone in a cafe to again say not to walk off.

This is really very worrying. I would lose my shit, with SIL and her OH. And say that if he is ever found with your child somewhere without your express permission, you will call the police. And don't let your child out of your sight.

I say trust your gut. Wrong, controlling... this is your/OH's child - not SIL's OH's child to performance parent with.

Bunted heads with ex-SIL when her then-boyfriend tried doing similar with my then small son. Nothing I could explicitly put my finger on, except that it upset DS. Ex and his parents were all "you're crazy 13"... fast-forward a few years and now the other DILs (ex's new wife and ex-BILs wife - they have kids exactly the same ages) are still complaining that it unnerves/upsets them when he wonders off with their 15 and12 year olds. Totally ignores his own 8 and 5 year old daughters.. is literally all about the nieces and nephews (two of whom have issues that may relate to CSA, horrifically). I actually just asked my 19 year old if he'd treat his sister's kids the same way, and he said not unless he wanted her to go no contact with him as a result. Might be worth considering if he's pushing the envelope, so to speak...?

This isn't him doing you a favour. This is him thumbing his nose with an arrogant ignorance... regarding your children. Maybe ask your SIL why.

This isn't him doing you a favour.
Yes this is exactly it. But to everyone else it probably looks like it. Or maybe it doesn’t.

Terrypratchett you’re right I don’t like it. I just don’t feel I can come out and declare SIL OH as a potential predator. That’s going to be a familial nuclear bomb.

It does feel like thumbing his nose or pushing envelope or some weird defiance. It’s very small things. It sounds stupid. Like at the holiday I was trying to get LO to bed and we had to say goodbye to all the matchbox cars and put them in their ‘beds’. Five minutes of intensive night nights and 20 cars later and I stand up to walk 5m to the door of the lounge whilst looking for comforter, dummy etc - say come on then. Must have been less than 30 seconds, maybe even 20. I turn around and he is with DC on the complete other side of the room and has taken the cars out again and is loading them on the car track. It’s like wtf are you doing!!!!!

We are just going to have to go LC aren’t we.

He's a perv. Cut him off.

I get groomy vibes, unsettling. I think you are right to be keeping an eye out.

Yeah, serious low contact

He sounds loopy

Protect your child.
Never mind about upsetting them. They’re not bothered about upsetting you are they?

Maybe don’t visit them much in future.

It sounds creepy and weird.

The minute it got to him walking off down the street with your baby I was "Creep, possibly worse, get the baby away from him." There's no good reason for him to do any of this. Family upset or not, he needs to be kept away from your child (and probably all others).

My BIL used to do similar with my kids when they were tiny. It wasn't pervy, but it was very 'perfomance parenting' and he was highly competitive about eg. developmental milestones between his kids and ours. It would drive us batshit as when the kids were all playing nicely together, he would insert himself into their games and wind them all up. Extremely irritating! No advice as he has stopped as they grew older (and more likely to just ignore him or tell him to go away) but I used to just be very vigilant.

Have you flagged this weird behaviour of his to other family members ?
What do they think ? Are there other children in the family that he also targets ?

It does sound groomy as pp said. All ok and you’re used to it until one days he does something bad then it’s too late. NC rather than LC !

This with bells on!

No but then maybe they don’t think it’s weird because everyone goes off with him alone on occasion. Sometimes he will lead you off. If the group is split it can be back and forth between kitchen and living like a yoyoyo playing for hours.

I wouldn’t have a problem with them as much as they are all female and direct family members as opposed in laws. And I have known them for decades. This person on the other hand as much as we have spent considerable time together the last two years I don’t really know who they are. If that makes sense.

I would point it out. I would say that keep taking your child to a private area away from you and without informing you is cruel at best because you're worried, and at worst, that's the type of action a paedophile would do so unless he wants you to think that is the reason, given that he knows you don't like him doing it, then he needs to quit. It is not acceptable. And if your sil or her oh make a fuss - ESPECIALLY the oh then you need not feel guilty because any normal person who was shown how their behaviour might be seen as predatory would immediately go 'oh no! That's awful, I'm so sorry' whereas someone who has those thoughts will respond in anger.
Which ever way it is - it is your child and if it feels off then it is off. Protect your child, not the feelings of an adult who should know better.

Have you actually had a direct conversation with him asking him to ask before taking the child off somewhere? Or asking him not to because it makes you nervous?

This!

It doesn't sound as though you've said anything! A straight 'Hey Fred, please don't remove little George without asking us first'. And make much of the fact that he does this in front of others too.

And why aren't you seeing him walk off with your child in the first place?

Use the sad story of the toddler lost in France last year. Everyone assumed he was with someone else.

No one take DC where I can’t see him. I keep thinking about that poor little French boy. Thank you.

There may be innocent reasons for the weird behaviour, but it’s for his benefit not yours or your DCs so it stops whatever the motive.

No which makes this quite difficult to now bring up.

But then I think it goes without saying you don’t wander off down the street with someone else’s child or out of the building.

I should have said it then but I have been in a slight point of shock and confusion. And me also alone with him trying to extract my child. I’m no wallflower but I think at those times my priority is just get DC and go back to the group. I am often short with him at those times. And quite an expressive face so I’m surprised he can’t read I’m super annoyed with him. But then maybe I’m not making that clear enough. I don’t really want to make me the ‘bad guy who stops play’ and him the fun uncle in DC eyes.

But then I think it goes without saying you don’t wander off down the street with someone else’s child or out of the building.

I think in this situation it does need to be said! Clearly you can’t count on this person’s common sense or empathy towards you, you’re going to have to be excruciatingly blunt and not give a shit about upsetting anyone in order to make your point. If you tiptoe or come across apologetic for not wanting your child to disappear it will keep happening and may escalate. It’s time to use your big words.

And why aren't you seeing him walk off with your child in the first place?

As I said it’s a big house, big family of responsible adults. Everyone bar this person is explicitly trusted with DC. We relax with family when we are there. I don’t know how to describe it to someone who doesn’t see how it can happen. It’s like Christmas Day multiple times a week. Everyone’s just there, the house is baby proof. DC spend time there regularly and are comfortable to run around. Are your children in direct eye sight for every single second of Christmas Day in a multi roomed house.

And they are so fast!!! It’s the speed with which they go from one place to another is like direct lightning speed. That’s part of what’s concerning me. It’s not the chaotic indecisive running in circles speed of a toddler. My son wouldn’t lead me to the bottom of the street at that speed without various pit stops to look at rocks, asked to be picked up, put down,
point at a snail etc.

So watch him instead of your toddler. That may be easier.

Just tell them, him, no disappearing with your child and no picking up unless asked. If he still doesnt listen, stay away from them. I had this with my baby... he was friends husband, he disappeared with her for couple minutes.. garden.i went nuts though. I put stop to it, dont care who was offended. I am there to protect my child.. not that he was a perv but uts boundaries...as your child gets older they need to see this... lead by example

That’s an excellent idea actually.

Never ignore your instinct although sometimes we are wrong but I wouldn't be taking any chances where a child's concerned.
Tell him firmly you are teaching your child not to go with people who are not his parents. If the family say "oh uncle Ted's different" say no we want to make it clear to our child that he does not walk away out of sight with anyone other than us and stick to it

I'd say in these instances you need you or dh to have eyes on your ds at all times. Take it in turns.

I'd get dh to have a word with sil saying you're not happy with it and you don't want people randomly taking your toddler without asking.

I'd reduce contact too.

Omg! My FIL does this... it always felt so wrong to me, but I was called crazy and "what do you have against my dad". Partly because it's so hard to put into words what exactly feels odd without giving them an awful label.. but now I feel even more unsettled about it.

I never ask him to babysit or be alone with kids for this reason..was just never able to explain the feeling I have...

Definitely address this now and set boundaries