Is this weird

[isthisodd4]

DP and I have a toddler. Family close by and see them very regularly. So very close knit. Our DC very lucky in that they have a raised ‘by village’ type feel when we visit. Large family of parents, siblings and partners. Large house (which becomes relevant to how the following happens so easily before you ask how my child is not within my arms at all moments).

So here’s the thing. SILs OH always walks off with our toddler. 99% of the time this happens they are within visual eye range so whilst I find it a bit odd it’s mundane enough that I haven’t raised it.

But there’s been a few incidents over time which have really grated on me and not sat well.

To name a few; the first which set off my odd-dar was when they were an immobile baby and we were like where are they !?!? And turns out he was in the middle of the garden rocking the baby all alone. That was the first where I was just like what?! After rushing round a house trying to find my child.

The most recent time was we were all in a holiday home and again I realise these two are MIA. There’s one lounge in this home so it’s been a matter of 2-3 minutes. Searched the whole house. Find him leading him down the street about to turn onto another!!

That was the final straw for me and I said to DP to watch it also. Make sure they weren’t alone at all together.

DP was recently with family post this incident and having coffee. And again they kept walking off round the square. Back and forth to the table. DP could see them so thought don’t want to make an issue but after the third time lost his patience and said bring him here. And they ignored and started walking off again. At which point partner had to make a bit of a scene with raised voice firm tone in a cafe to again say not to walk off.

I don’t know. I don’t like it. This whole time I have assumed it’s some odd performative parenting thing of ‘oo look how good I am with children’ and it’s grated but I have tried to ignore.

Now it’s getting to the point where it’s feeling weird. I don’t think he’s a sexual predator or a serial killer or anything like that. But it’s starting to feel like a weird controlling thing. Why would you lead someone’s kid off somewhere when you know the parents don’t want you to. And if every time you do, you are immediately found and the child taken back swiftly with often quite short tone of ‘We didn’t know where they were’ would you not get the hint. It’s really weirding me out. Someone can’t be that socially unaware.

And I have no idea how to address this because obviously I do not want to upset SIL.

Is this weird?

Absolutely ridiculous saying we are expecting others to look after DC.

If they weren’t there in the first place then DC would stay with us or take us to where he wants to play and we would all stay there. The issue occurs when people are split across parts of the house. And he likes to run inbetween visiting people. He loves all his family. And they love him. It should have been a safe space. When splits occur there’s usually multiple adults in each room. It’s just never been a problem. Unless you start leaving the house.

DP and I (or atleast one of us) usually stay in the kitchen because there’s a back door there leading to a swimming pool and with dogs coming and going that’s where I like to be. Because that’s the main physical hazard. Up until this point I was confident that as long as I watched that door and made sure he didn’t go out then he was safe. That’s obviously since he was mobile.

The immobile baby garden situation I have no idea how that happened. I certainly did not give him to the partner so someone else must have done. I have never been precious about other people holding DC and have no issue with any of the direct in-laws themselves. I do have to toilet and make a drink or anything else I might have been doing. It never occurred to us at that early point that this would be an issue. I probably dropped the ball on that but wasn’t expecting someone to potentially kidnap my child.

Funnily enough I don’t believe partner did hold baby after that. So maybe others did notice and wouldn’t hand over. Maybe we do need to have quiet words with some of the other direct siblings.

I have such sympathy for you @isthisodd4 and I agree you’re not expecting others to look after your child, but you rightly assumed in a household of family that your child was “safe”.

It must be very difficult to be faced with the possibility (and you’re right it is just based at the point on very odd and inappropriate behaviour and “gut” instinct) that this space is not safe. I can’t imagine how awful you must feel because you’re right, it’s a hard thing to even put into words that aren’t “just don’t come near my child” even though I imagine that’s what your head is kinda screaming now.

I would for the moment speak with your DH, make a plan on how you both navigate this space going forward and what to watch for and also call it as you see it. If it’s worst case scenario then the last thing a potential predator wants is to know they’re been caught onto and have their behaviour drawn attention to.

I’d very loosely gage opinion from other family members who may have noticed, or simply throw some feelers out for their reactions to behaviour you HAVE noticed. They may suddenly say “yes! We noticed xyz too” and go from there with whether you carry on interacting in that environment. It’s awful, because obviously you don’t want to upset your SIL, but I don’t really see if he continues to push your boundaries so blatantly with your child how you can maintain close contact.

As a pp said, watch him, not your dc, much easier. The very next time he tries walking off with him, I’d grab your dc and ask him directly ‘Why do you keep taking dc when I’ve repeatedly told you (not asked) not to?’ I would give zero fucks about keeping the peace, you’re not accusing him of anything, just asking why he’s ignoring your wishes for your child.

Edit to say: my family books a huge house annually, up to 20 members/friends staying. There are multiple little dc, some of whom may be playing quietly in a different room, a bedroom, the huge garden, a shed. Nobody takes them away and usually, the parents will ensure they’re where they should be, or they’re being supervised whilst exploring/on the swing etc, but I completely get how very easy it would be for someone to take one down the lane etc.

Imo mil won't admit her dd could have made such an error as choosing him.... It is all down to you op.

Look it might be for a different reason but I’m telling you right now and hear me.

While there are stranger predators the vast vast vast majority of children who experience childhood sexual abuse do so at the hands of a family member or close family friend then a trusted adult in a position of trust or power like a coach or teacher or scout leader etc.

they manage this because they are either very good at being careful or play on society politeness to not enforce boundaries when people feel uncomfortable with their behaviour. Abuse perpetration is secretive and insidious and requires adults around to not notice or to ignore or be lax and these adults most often do this even when they think something is off because they don’t want to cause upset or create waves examples I’ve heard. well I don’t know for certain or there’s no proof or maybe it’s nothing and I’m being too sensitive. Or what if I’m wrong and end up looking stupid.

sexual predators are almost certainly someone you know who hasn’t been caught yet.

Infact you won’t realise it but you probably know a sexual predator or at least have met one.

99% of the adult survivors of CSA that I know or have worked with were victims from someone they knew and had access to them usually coupled with the ability to manipulate time alone (although not always) with them (not even a lot of time because once a child has experienced enough grooming they don’t necessarily need a lot of time to commit the actual act)

the truth is it doesn’t make any difference if this guy has suspicions intentions or not. You as your child’s parent are the gatekeeper for their safety so if you feel something is off act on it. It really is that simple.

you don’t need to drop a bomb into the family dynamics you just lay out your boundaries and make sure they are stuck to or this person or any other person who doesn’t adhere to them then they do not get access to your child.
I would be telling him specifically that you as a couple are telling him he is not to wander off on his own with child anymore, you have told him not to do this multiple times and you have been ignored so you are clearly telling him again and if it’s ignored you will be pissed.

in the meantime just keep an eye on bil do not give him the opportunity to be alone with your child and talk to your husband.

Always trust your gut about people OP especially when it involves your children's safety.

@Ginkypig's absolutely right. If nothing else, @isthisodd4, you need to share the statistics and indisputed facts with your MIL, SIL, who ever is helping to potentially put your child at risk.

With my situation with the ex-married-in-inlaw, and my son, I was already hyper-vigilant of any predatory behaviour towards either one of my children - because when i was very young, my father's brother groomed and then molested me. I knew the signs to watch out for. I'd be damned if I'd be like my mother and not like to rock the family waters. I've known my ex since we were 11, he knows what I endured, and he understood when we split, that if I ever found out from our son that he'd been left alone with this bloke, I would raise Holy Hell about it and be very clear as to why.

Oh, and that's another thing to be aware of - when they tell you what vivid imaginations your kids have got. It's dressed up as a compliment, but it's actually a manipulation - they've planted a seed inside of your brain, so when your kid comes to you and says "Uncle touched me"... it's all in their imaginations! Yep. Personal experience. I was a happy, friendly, bubbly little girl until I was 7, when I abruptly became withdrawn, loathe to have people see me without clothing on, refused to wear knickers because what was the point if they "kept falling down", the whole red flag CSA bunting... my parents didn't believe me. Because he and their other brother, had convinced everyone that I was making it all up, because of my vivid imagination - and essentially convinced everyone that I was a liar who deserved to be ousted from the family (when my grandmother died - and she knew, and ensured that I, then when I had my oldest, she, too, was never left alone with him at all - his son threatened to kill me, if I turned up to her funeral... She and I were very close, spoke every other day on the phone, I visited with her only GGC, all of the time... but apparently my children and I were too insidious to be at the funeral. Really, it was him running scared because he knew I'd probably have my say and be very clear about not having him anywhere near my daughter, who was around the same age as I was when he started). I'm 48 now, and the damage that was done to me - both sexual and emotional abuse, as a small child...? Well, I've been in therapy for decades. All because of my parents not wanting to upset him. That's the cold, hard truth of it. This is just a taste of what your DH's family are potentially opening up for the vulnerable little ones in the family.

Trust your gut. Protect your DC, not this bloke who is working out just how much he can get away with - knowing that it's a little bit further each time. Please don't let this weird, actually predatory behaviours be swept under the rug just to protect your SIL. Because what if he abuses her incoming child...? You'll all feel awful for not being brave enough to say "actually, that's the sort of thing an abuser might do, to get their selected-future-survivor on their own!" or "are they being sincere when they say X about our child, or are they going to twist the narrative against our child so that they feel thar they can't speak out, because they'll know that because of X being planted in our heads, we won't believe them?' It's a literal minefield, I know, but maternal instincts are there for a bloody good reason!

This is truly creepy behaviour, and I would also be on high alert. You have gut feelings for very good reason.

@isthisodd4

hi I just wanted to check in on you.

I know this thread must have been very scary for you and I wanted to check you are okay?

im sorry if my post was disturbing or direct although I stand by what I said because it’s important but for you as a parent it must have been very difficult to hear my and others replies.

A few of us have written direct and possibly disturbing replies, including those of us who were victims or rape and sexual assault when we were children, with devastating effects on our lives. including me, raped by an uncle in a relative’s house when I was very little. But @isthisodd4 I’m worried that you are frightened to go far enough.

You mentioned intending to have a quiet word with other relatives. I’m afraid that could backfire. They could easily all brush it off, tell you you’re being paranoid and silly, and that he’s just looking after him. That’s what people like to think. He actually could be innocent but clueless about what’s ok and what isn’t, but the fact is, he’s behaving exactly like a predator grooming a whole family, and the other relatives might have been completely influenced by him already.

You need to be direct, and you need all of them to hear you. Do as @Cherrysoup said:
The very next time he tries walking off with him, I’d grab your dc and ask him directly ‘Why do you keep taking dc when I’ve repeatedly told you (not asked) not to?’
and repeat as necessary. You need him to hear you, and you need others to hear you telling him. If they tell you not to be ridiculous, tell them you don’t want your child learning that it’s ok to be taken off by anyone without you or his dad knowing. You might have to stand up to the family in a way that’s more than you feel comfortable with, but it’s that courage that keeps children safe.

Sounds dodgy as hell to me. He's weird what he's doing isn't normal. Don't have any regrets OP they would last a lifetime.

Thanks @Ginkypig & @FictionalCharacter

It is devastating and terrifying to hear these stories but it’s important to know it can happen and it’s not as rare as people think.

DP and I have spoken about it a lot the last week. He’s on the same page as I thankfully. It’s still in an emotive place so we are buying time at the moment and trying to calm down so we can try to observe the situation with this new perspective as rationally as we can next time we are in contact. It is hard to stay rational considering the subject matter.

I wanted to reply to each person individually as there as so many kind and helpful replies as well as thank survivors for sharing their stories as warning but have been trying to limit my posts on this thread as didn’t want this on trending.

So thankyou everyone. We certainly are going to deal with this.

I’m really pleased you came back to the thread @isthisodd4

i hoped you would because you had realised that all of us who shared or were being direct with you were doing so exactly because we had the knowledge and experience to know without the tiniest bit of doubt how hugely important it is for this to be on your radar because the other outcome is unthinkable and the damage irreversible. But I also knew that for someone with no knowledge around this that this thread could also have been scary. It taps into that primal part most adults/parents are desperate to avoid.

im so glad to hear your response, I only wish for me as a child, for others on this thread, for my friends and the people iv worked with that other parents could have faced the challenges you are facing right now with such an open mind and so seriously. Not that I’m assigning blame to anyone except the predators in these situations of course just that we didn’t have a you and its too late for us now but not for your little one.