Londoners have absolutely decimated my city

[CrushedOrange]

NC as really outing.
I'm a musician and over the years I have seen what was a steady stream of londoners turn into a flood this year.
I'm so gutted. I know everybody has the right to live here but it has pushed so many of my friends out, artists and other musicians. It pisses me off that the whole reason these londoners moved here, they are also destroying.
I'm lucky as my landlord is really decent and hasn't put my rent up in years, so I can afford to stay here. But now I'm considering just leaving because of the vibe factor. It makes me really sad. I still gig a few times a week but the crowd is different. I miss my community, but now everybody is scattered as everyone who was pushed out has gone to different places.
I'm considering just jumping ship and moving on myself but I don't know where to go.
Today some more londoners moved into the street...The whole street is full of scaffolding as they seem to really love doing home improvements 😅
I know I sound really bitter. I guess I am. I don't know whether to stay or go, and of I go, where to?

I know @Pollipops1 ; I'm also not English and neither of my parents are, one is not British either. Maybe somebody will explain it to us

In my experience, people still say they're Indian, Jamaican, Italian and also that they're a Londoner (which isn't the same as being 'from London'). I don't see any disconnect there, but clearly others do.

@Ginmonkeyagain

All I could feel was a deep, emotional almost visceral pull to be back in London, I was desperate to get back there. I felt outraged to my core someone had done this to MY city.

I feel similar. I love London. I was born here and have lived three quarters of my life here but I couldn’t care less where people come from or how long they have been here as long as they embrace it. You can have been here five minutes and still be a Londoner if you have the right mindset in my view.

And yes London has problems and it’s expensive as fuck and this is creating huge social stress. But I am fucked if I am going to sit by and listen to someone with a poor grasp of logic, a desire to show off to the bourgeoisie and an overinflated sense of their own talent rant on about outsiders under the cloak of being a “creative”.

Out of interest, what is "the right mindset?"

A lot of Londoners are pissed off with all the wealthy foreigners who’ve been buying up London property for years, who have whacked the prices right up, priced out so many locals, and don’t necessarily live in them or even rent them out.

Yes my mum would say she's from Bombay, even though Bombay doesn't exist anymore, she only lived there for 25 years, and she's lived in London for over 50! I say I'm from London even though I don't live there anymore.

Let me try again.

@Pollipops1 was born and bred in London. She is therefore a Londoner. It doesn’t matter where her parents or grandparents or great grandparents came from or what other cultural heritage she has. She is a Londoner. If she moved to Essex tomorrow, she would still be a Londoner.

The people who move to London for work or family or whatever other reason, who settle in London for any period of time, should feel like London is their home. It is their home. They’re as much a vital part of the community as people who can trace their London roots back to the Romans. They aren’t ’less than’ anyone born & bred there. But they are not Londoners. They are people who live in London. It’s not an insult or an attempt to make anyone feel unwelcome or unwanted. Part of what makes London the wonderful place it is, is different people moving in and out.

And because I obviously don’t speak for everyone born and bred in London, I’m sure there will be Londoners who disagree with me and consider anyone who lives in London to be a Londoner. But I firmly believe that if you were not born in London, then you cannot be a Londoner, in the same way that I couldn’t be a Glaswegian if I moved there tomorrow. It could be my home and my community and I could love it and feel tied to it, but there is not a soul in Glasgow who would consider me Glaswegian.

Indeed there are Londoners who disagree with you, @Whothefuckdoesthat . I'm one of them

Your post is even more pertinent to me, since if we followed the rules in there I'm technically a Glaswegian. We moved from there when I was pre school age, I have no connections to the place whatsoever bar an accident of birth and if I went there claiming to be a Glaswegian people would piss themselves laughing and rightly so. Yet according to you, that's what I am?

@poshsnobtwit

Out of interest, what is "the right mindset?"

For starters a mindset that doesn’t arbitrarily distinguish creative “producers” from “consumers” as the OP has in her post. As if “creatives” can live of fresh air and genius without the need that the dirty money people have for food and a place to live.

Oh and also a mindset that doesn’t judge people’s right to live somewhere based on the length of time they have lived there.

Yes my mum would say she's from Bombay, even though Bombay doesn't exist anymore, she only lived there for 25 years, and she's lived in London for over 50! I say I'm from London even though I don't live there anymore.

Maybe it’s about common ground? My parents have met other people from their birthplace & found a link. I’ve often met other South Londoners and we have a connection somewhere. I met my DH at uni in another city (he was raised not far from me) & we have a mutual friend. My colleague has a school mum friend that I went to school with. I have loads of similar examples, it can be a very small world!

Your post is even more pertinent to me, since if we followed the rules in there I'm technically a Glaswegian. We moved from there when I was pre school age, I have no connections to the place whatsoever bar an accident of birth and if I went there claiming to be a Glaswegian people would piss themselves laughing and rightly so. Yet according to you, that's what I am?

@SocksAndTheCity would Glaswegians agree with calling me myself a Glaswegian though if I moved there?

@poshsnobtwit to me the right mindset is accepting London for what it is and not thinking you have a right to replicate a suburban or country life here. But also giving back.

Too many people come to London and take (fun filled 20s or high paying job), don't give back and then complain it is unfriendly. We know our neighhours, local shop keepers and others because we give back and get involved.

I have no idea? I know absolutely nothing about the place, as I've already said.

You’re never going to accept that you’re not a Londoner and I’m never going to accept that you are, so I don’t really see the point in bickering over it. I’m not saying that you don’t belong there, or that you’re an ‘outsider’. Because you live there, so you do belong there and you’re not an outsider. You’re not a Londoner, but you’re not an outsider. What matters is that you feel like London is your home. And it sounds like you do, so surely all is right with the world?

And I’m not suggesting you’d be Glaswegian at all. You’re reaching a bit there. I’m not saying what you are. I’m saying that if you weren’t born in London, then you are a person who lives there. You are not a Londoner. It’s not an insult.

to me the right mindset is accepting London for what it is and not thinking you have a right to replicate a suburban or country life here. But also giving back.

What does this even mean? People have the right to do what they like.

I went there claiming to be a Glaswegian people would piss themselves laughing and rightly so

And yet you know the above! 🤔

@Whothefuckdoesthat It is an odd thing to be so tenchant about, what does it matter to you? Do you make the same distinction between British people who were born here and those who move here and gain citizenship? That would be a bit rude no?

@Ginmonkeyagain yes I hate the trope of unfriendly “Londoners”.

Born and bred she said, so no you’re not a Glaswegian as you were simply born there.

@Mirabai of course they do but they is an acceptance amongst Londoners that there are trade offs. Some people seem to want to big house, driveway, parking, big garden etc.. but also live in London. And then moan when that is not possible for most people.

It’s an interesting point. I’d expect Mancunian or a Liverpudlian or Glaswegian to be born and bred there.

Londoners - I don’t know despite being a born and bred Londoner.

I have several 50+ friends and colleagues who live in Brighton!

But I also know several who've moved out of Brighton, to places like Seaford, Shoreham and some to villages and small towns like Steyning.

I get what @Whothefuckdoesthat is saying. I don’t see someone who moved to London as an adult the same as myself & others I know but I guess that’s why the born & bred term exists. But others can identify how they wish.

They do and this is crucial to why some of us love London for all it’s faults. Because above all it has a “live and let live” philosophy.

I have never been troubled in London by anyone thinking I should live in a certain way, whether it’s the OP’s cringeworthy idea of a “bohemian paradise” or a neighbourhood watch, keep your picket fence white type mentality.

There is minimal interference from people who think they have the right to decide how I should go about my business. No one decides you are not PLU because you didn’t go to the same primary school or you don’t go to the social events. You are not required to have lived somewhere for 20 years before anyone will give you the time of day and people don’t concern themselves with your marital status or what you wear.

This is what being a Londoner means to me. It’s freedom from other people’s ideas of how you ought to live. And it comes at a high price but it’s worth it. Of course London isn’t the only place like this is the UK. But it’s the only place where people feel it’s acceptable to kick all the time and I am tired of people who barely know it feeling they can do this.

I’ve lived that life for most of my 50 years, it’s absolutely possible. Partly because you didn’t need a lot of money to have a big house in London 50 years ago.

But I’ve not heard people moan about it either.

No idea what tenchant means. But it absolutely matters in the same way that it would matter to those hypothetical Glaswegians @SocksAndTheCity and I have just been discussing.

Not at all. If someone moves to Britain and gains citizenship, they are as British as I am. And they could settle in London and have children, who would be Londoners. But they, along with Socks, will always be a British person who lives in London, not a Londoner. If they moved to Dublin, they would be a British person who lives in Dublin, not a Dubliner.