To think that no newly qualified lawyer can be worth a salary of £150k?

[Molemole]

I’m a private practise solicitor in the south west. I serve my community and have worked my way up to partner in our small firm. Aged 56 I make £60k a year.

I’ve just read that lawyers at snobby london firms like Freshfields and Linklaters are now paying their trainees more than me. They are paying newly qualified lawyers £150k plus bonus.

How can anyone be worth that with 6 months experience in that area?

If you think you can pull in that salary, apply.

So go work there OP? I earn £50k as a lawyer, work for a local authority. I’m only on 12k more a year than when I qualified 6 years ago because I qualified into private practice. But I am quite content because I work my 21.75 hours a week and log off, I get time in lieu, work flexibly and have no one hovering over me looking at my billing.

Weve all made our choices. I could go to a London firm and earn more, I don’t want to.

I think you're wildly underpaid and it's making you bitter!! I'm an in house lawyer for a public sector org and on £50K with no team leading responsibility

The £150k is an arbitrary number to match their relative competitors ... just like a nurse or dustbin lorry operator are "worth" far more than their salary as they are bloody invaluable

So as said upthread, these NQ solicitors are doing around 100 hours a week. Assume that (with a typical leave entitlement, and further assuming they can take all of that leave) they are doing that for 46 weeks a year, that works out at about £33 per hour before tax. If you're doing (say) 40 hours a week, then your £60k a year would work out about the same per hour.

I know which of these roles I'd rather have.

“Snobby london firms”

Oh dear OP that’s a big chip you have on your shoulder there.

£150k is an investment in ensuring they have and retain top talent and I’m going to guarantee they work harder and are likely smarter than you.

Oh dear.
"Snobby"
NQTs aren't worth it in magic circle firms. Perhaps not but nowadays they will have a first from a top university, probably a fluency in a 2nd language, probably a USP such as started as a mathmo and switched which is helpful in commercial law, cross border transactions and tax.
They work 12 hour days sic days a week, probably as a minimum.
Due to the hours they can't handle long commutes so probably live in zone 2 London - £600k for a small flat, £2k pcm rent.
Many don't keep it up for quality of life reasons or get weeded out - a lot of those move happily to lower tier firms, in-house or to the provinces to smaller firms and end up with a better life balance, lower col and, depending on location and practice area, £60k to £120k.

You aren't comparing like for like and for those who don't scale the pyramid the silly money for silly hours is a relatively short-lived career. Just like City based financial services - been there, done that and was totally burnt out at 35.

Thing is there is a finite pool of excellent graduates each year. The top law and finance firms want the best of the crop by paying for it. Not all of those will make it beyond 3-5 years and they will work them hard for it. Other industries offer different things. Eg diplomatic service will be recruiting from same pool and will be offering prestige (and a fairly crappy salary), charity sector can offer the altruism and appeal to those who want to do good. You generally get the pick of the crop by paying a lot or picking up or by offering something that is more altruistic. My husband works in an industry that doesn’t do the altruism thing or pays mega bucks to grads and tends to have pretty mediocre grads as a result.

To correct some misconceptions here, a newly qualified solicitor isn’t straight out of university; they have done a legal practice course or similar and often a law conversion course if a non law undergraduate degree. Then a two year training contract before being classed as “newly qualified”.

I worked in a magic circle law firm. It wasn’t snobby. Ever single one of my peers was in the top 1% of their graduating class (usually the prize winners at their respective universities for top graduating student in their course). I worked three times the hours of friends in non legal industries (medicine included) and the pressure was immense. That kind of pace isn’t sustainable for most people which is why only a tiny percentage make partner. It’s also why the pay is so high - because for most (not all) they can only work at that pace for a decade or so.

how aged 56 have you only just realised this @Molemole ?

I am a solicitor and have known for ever that city firms pay extremely well, but also expect blood in return

I used work for a corporate which regularly retains firms such as these to work on M&A deals. A number of years back we were working hard to close a deal before Christmas. I recall leaving the law firm offices close to midnight with all the material terms agreed to go to our hotel. The law firm associate was going back to her desk to mark up the docs. The time stamp on the email of the revised documents was 5am and she was in the office waiting for us when we arrived at 7:30am Christmas Eve morning.

That’s what they are being paid for - to basically suspend their lives completely in return for financial reward. The fees we were charged in that deal ran into the millions.

I also would have been hauled over the coals for writing “practise” as a noun form.

Freshfields and Linklaters are now paying their newly qualified solicitors £150k plus bonus.

My goodness! Whatever next.

A 23 year-old paid £375,000 per week in Manchester for kicking a ball around a football pitch?

NQ salaries are well known and have been for ages. See Roll On Friday.

This is really the result of the salary arms race that the US law firms have created; UK law firms are having to compete.

Ask yourself OP would you want their lives? Really?

Tbf as a 10+ year qualified senior solicitor at a City firm (not as high paying as Freshfields), I'm loving the £150k NQ salary chat. It's pay review season so I'm hoping it will encourage the partners to give me a decent rise. I enjoy dropping it into conversation frequently with my boss.

Former lawyer at a big US firm. I started on 6 figures as an NQ and made approx 300k the year I quit. The pay is high because very few people are willing or able to work 14 hour days 5 days per week. The work is simultaneously tedious and stressful. Hardly anyone makes partner. It’s essentially danger money for the cannon fodder. I resigned after having my first baby because I wasn’t willing to keep working that way and I was in the fortunate position not to need the money.

The NQs are “worth it” because that’s the market rate for NQs at city firms these days.

Aren’t salaries just bunching up though. The lock-step increases will get smaller as the NQ rate is the one that gets attention. The equity partners won’t cut their profit share.

Ha me too fingers. I didn’t go back after dd1 was born. I would never have seen my baby! A colleague had a day nanny and a night nanny. No judgement but fuck that!

Why are you only on 60k as a partner? I’m at an SW firm and that’s less than our Associates make.

And also future newly qualified in these firms will only be those who have passed the SQE on their first attempt. That’s a bloodbath of an exam and only the best will past first time. On top of that they have a minimum of two years practical experience - they haven’t just walked out of uni into a law firm.

it is the norm for the type of firms she is talking about and they have been forced to increase pay due to conception from US law firms. These type of law firms tend to work on corporate transactions that can run into billions rather than smaller law firms that work with individuals etc so. They work on corporate transactions such as mergers and acquisitions, private equity deals etc, there is no way a law firm that e.g. focuses on immigration or a solicitor firm will be anywhere near as profitable as a corporate law firm and will never pay anywhere as close.

I’m assuming this is the story OP is referring to as you can see some US firms already pay £180k for NQ lawyers in London.

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/linklaters-freshfields-nq-pay-150-000-quinn-clifford-chance-a-o-cravath-038fafc4#

having said that I do agree with you at £60k is very very low for a partner role unless it’s a very small firm.

Does a professional person actually use the term ‘Snobby London firms’…..?!🤣🤣

But why does it need to be done at the weekend? This is not life and death stuff. Surely it can wait until office hours?

Or if it can't wait and is actually an emergency then you need a proper shift system so people aren't working stupid hours.

Struggling to understand why it has to be like this.

Absolutely - but when an NQ at another firm is paid more / the same, and you're 10+ years qualified, it's a reasonably good lever to pressure the partners at annual pay review time. I don't believe in sitting back and not challenging the partners on pay; they'd not pay me as much if I didn't. Not here for the love of the job, after all 😂

How much business do you bring in for your firm OP?

After a couple of years those NQs will be bringing in at least £10M pa, and if not then they will have been let go.

If you bring in that much business, pay yourself more.

This. You sound about 12.

I’m a solicitor and trained and qualified at a magic circle firm. The hours I worked were insane - even as a trainee and a NQ.

High street solicitors work very hard but I’ve yet to hear of one pulling an all nighter or working anything close to the hours of even a trainee at the top US and MC firms.

Unfortunately it’s necessary for us to have these firms with their crazy hours and crazy salaries to support London as a major financial centre. Without it this country would suffer immeasurably.

Presumably when you did your law degree or conversion course in the 1990s you made a choice to go into provincial practice rather than applying for top London firms (assuming you had a 2:1 or 1st from an RG or Oxbridge uni).