To think that no newly qualified lawyer can be worth a salary of £150k?

[Molemole]

I’m a private practise solicitor in the south west. I serve my community and have worked my way up to partner in our small firm. Aged 56 I make £60k a year.

I’ve just read that lawyers at snobby london firms like Freshfields and Linklaters are now paying their trainees more than me. They are paying newly qualified lawyers £150k plus bonus.

How can anyone be worth that with 6 months experience in that area?

It's real for sure. The FT reported several days ago.

Sure you do....

Still, no one should sleep under their desk and work those ridiculous hours

They have beds. Urgh this thread is triggering for me!

Although I think it’s great for young lawyers to go to the City if they can then you don’t end up bitter like the op as you know the reality of it! I got a husband and a house deposit out of it so on balance 6 years of working like a maniac were worth it. The trick is knowing when to leave. Less money more life!

Ha ha, maybe they should add "husband and house" to the list of benefits.

And, to be fair, to buy a gorgeous house and send the DC to whatever school they fancy and put them through uni debt free.

Or you could stick it out for just a few years, long enough to get yourself on the property ladder and before you have children. Lots of people do.

That is also true. Trick is knowing when to get out, which is easier said than done. Lifestyle creep is absolutely a thing. Which I assume is why you see so many people in their 40s and 50s slogging away at very well paid but awful jobs they hate.

Dh to thank for that. He was given the nod that he was on the partnership track but he didn’t want to live that life and miss out on his family. So we both bailed for the West Country - colleagues were shocked ! We left early thirties before we got too embedded. We saw the family lives of the solicitors at the next life stage to us and we didn’t want that for us.

One of my housemates at law school freely admitted that she was only going to a MC firm because she wanted to meet a rich husband and then stop working...

Short term pain for long term gain.

Speculate to accumulate.

Quite simply, it suits some people at that time of life and sets them up for the future. Just a matter of knowing it's short term, use it as a stepping stone, and move on when the time is right. It's not as if they sleep under their desks every day - that's pretty rare and there are plenty of days when they have normal days.

My son works for one of the biggest pension/insurance firms. He's only been there a few months and is well paid for a graduate entry job. The work load is very lumpy - some days nothing to do with lots of flexibility for late starts, early finishes, long lunch hours etc., then some days are very early starts and late finishes and at various times of the year, it's full on weekend working. The rough cancels out the smooth. None of that is controlled/monitored by time sheets - it's all done on mutual understanding/respect basis within his very close knit team. They know what work needs doing, they work together to make it happen, whatever it takes.

They aren't doubting the veracity of the salaries in London.... Just the authenticity of the Op

I think big pensions/insurance is less awful than MC or big four grad schemes. A lot of the big pension and insurance providers are big now on better working policies. For example Aviva were out of the blocks early on enhanced paternity leave.

That's exactly it. And the law firms (etc) are looking for the people willing to do that, not particularly the "brightest and best". Quite a lot of those headed for MC at my law school were decidedly average academically (well, within the law school intake) but they were avaricious and driven.

Sadly several burnt out and at least one became desperately ill, but for others the gamble paid off.

Now I get you may be dyslexic but even a dyslexic solicitor would know how to spell private "practice".

If you are in a high street type practice in SW Devon you simply aren't doing the same type of work as "snobby" London firms.

Actually law firms aren't corporations but partnerships (or LLP) meaning it wasn't a corporation he made richer but himself as a business co-owner.

As others have said in this profession and at that level you make choices. Some do it for the long haul. Some do it for a set period and set themselves up to walk into the highest level at regional firms. The OP chose a different route and on that salary is presumably at a not great high street type practice.

Yes, I know that. I was more thinking more the companies they are working for and need to be on hand 24/7 to deal with M&A etc... you are at the end of the day merely protecting their financial interests.

Nothing wrong with that, money makes the world go round and all that, but it is a lot to sacrifice your personal life for IMO. If it wasn't in their financial interest these companies wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

Everyone knows part of the high pay/long hours is because those big corporate clients demand presence.

It’s not always quite as extreme as some pps have said - as a trainee in these firms you will need to work the crazy hours, but if you’re smart on qualification and choose a more niche advisory team (employment, competition, tax, reg) you can have a reasonable work life balance, which (as pps have said) improves as you get more senior.

Im in litigation which can sometimes be incredibly intense but is generally not as bad as corporate/finance. When I qualified into a “silver circle” firm 10 years ago salaries were half what they were now but I’d also say I’ve had a good run - patches of hard work, weekday plans definitely rare, but weekend and holiday work also infrequent. Im now at a US firm paying NQs at a similar level and am senior enough that I can control my diary to a certain extent. I’ve got 2 small kids and still feel my work life balance is reasonable.

As for my trainee intake - they were certainly not the brightest - mostly privately educated, 2.1s from Russell Group unis - but organised, efficient, hardworking, good interpersonal skills and knew how to play the game. I’m from
a working class background with much better academics yet have still never felt I’ve truly fitted in.

At the end of the day, the MC firms are recharging these newly qualified staff at more than their salaries and other employment costs, so they're making money out of them, even if they have to pay what appears to be stupidly high wages. The fact is that their clients are willing to pay very high hourly rates so it's a value judgement by the client. Just like someone willing to pay thousands for a handbag or a pair of shoes despite the actual handbag or shoes costing just £50 or whatever in raw materials!

A bog standard small town practice solicitor or accountant is doing a completely different type of work. Mrs Miggins only wants to pay £150 for her bog standard will. Joe Smith only wants to pay £1,000 for his house purchase conveyance. You can't be paying £150k for a trainee solicitor when you have clients like that. Even the senior partners won't be earning £150k with clients like that!!

Yet someone like Tyson Fury will want "something special" when it comes to his multi million pound business dealings, property portfolio, business portfolios, etc., spanning worldwide income, worldwide assets, worldwide taxation, etc., and will be paying a thousand per hour to his solicitor who has the knowledge/experience in handling multi millionaire clients.

It may be the same qualification, but the type of work, type of client, etc will be completely different requiring different skill sets.

Yes it's a lot of money. Jobs in law are as variable as jobs in medícine. There is a huge variation between the skills and salary of a country GP and a top consultant in a hospital. In the same way there is no comparison between chamber or regional criminal or family law and city corporate law. Being able to work hard and work well for 12-18 hour days and at least one day every weekend and at high pressure while having the intellectual capacity to do complicated things, perform mental gymnastics, smile and remain professional with clients and others at all times and look immaculate, isn't for everyone!

These firms are paying it because they can and because it means they have access to the best brains and people who are highly motivated to live to work and maximise fee income. I'm not expressing any view as to sense or morality- just saying it as it is.

It has never been harder to access law firm traineeships. For magic circle firms your chances are low of even making the first cut if you're not an Oxbridge or sometimes good Russell group first class degree holder plus having secured holiday internships in similar firms or industry from your first year at uni - so from when you're 18/19. Even to secure an internship will require a couple of online tests, recorded interview and full day or more assessment centre. A young relative was one of 100 candidates at such an assessment centre for a regional firm and that was the first cut from a couple of thousand.

In many cases now young law students and others have to work in low paid jobs or as paralegals for a good few years before securing a training contract or SQA funding. Its not easy.

Often what the big clients are paying for is that availability as well. My small town conveyancer is going to tell me to piss off if I want to call at 8am on a Sunday with queries about my house purchase (which they rightly should!)

@harrietm87

As for my trainee intake - they were certainly not the brightest - mostly privately educated, 2.1s from Russell Group unis - but organised, efficient, hardworking, good interpersonal skills and knew how to play the game.

Nail on the head there. The actual qualification is only part of the bigger picture. It's all the other skills that matter, potentially more important. It's exactly why employers want candidates who can demonstrate skills in areas beyond the degree/qualification, such as work experience, voluntary work, sports teams, Uni rep experience, hobbies/interests, etc., and why there's such an emphasis these days on psychometric tests, online aptitude tests, etc.

Get a decent degree and you'll be snapped up by a typical small town solicitor/accountant practice etc.

Get a decent degree and relevant work experience and voluntary work experience and experience as team captain of the school/Uni rugby or netball team, and successfully navigate the online application process, get through the online aptitude tests etc., and you'll be snapped up by a top 10 firm.

@taxguru Get a decent degree and relevant work experience and voluntary work experience and experience as team captain of the school/Uni rugby or netball team, and successfully navigate the online application process, get through the online aptitude tests etc., and you'll be snapped up by a top 10 firm.

And even then you may not! One firm had 6000 applicants this year for 9 TC places.

Ah, thanks, yes, a definite possibility.

Sure… you know my friendship circle better than I do. But I’m not going to argue… sigh.

To misquote Orwell… All lawyers are equal, but some lawyers are more equal than others”