To think that no newly qualified lawyer can be worth a salary of £150k?

[Molemole]

I’m a private practise solicitor in the south west. I serve my community and have worked my way up to partner in our small firm. Aged 56 I make £60k a year.

I’ve just read that lawyers at snobby london firms like Freshfields and Linklaters are now paying their trainees more than me. They are paying newly qualified lawyers £150k plus bonus.

How can anyone be worth that with 6 months experience in that area?

Move to London and earn that money then, problem solved.

My DDs bf has a training contract with one of the ‘snobby’ firms and the wages are very high.
He works really hard, has always put many hours into his study and spent his holidays doing internships when at university.
I can imagine many people burning out, it’s a lot of money but not easy money.

It does help though if you have as the woman I know had, a good degree from Oxford and fluency (she’s not from there) in Cantonese/Mandarin.

Obviously, they’ll want to think of where the money and clients will come from and pay accordingly. And even better if no DC so they can travel more and work longer hours.

I’m a future MC trainee solicitor (not at one of the two firms which have just increased NQ salaries to £150k). I think there are a coupe of reasons why that has become necessary beyond the insane hours these law firms demand:

1. if you take the most direct route (a law degree, the SQE, and a two year training contract), you would be 25 by the time you earn £150k, but the average age to qualify as a solicitor is just over 30, so this isn’t graduates straight out of university earning £150k, this is people in the late 20s/early 30s, some of whom will be thinking of starting families in the near future.

2. MC law firms are competing both with US law firms (one of which pays £180k NQ in their London office) and with top investment banking, hedge fund, venture capital, and consulting outfits to attract talent - they need to have an attractive NQ salary to compensate for the fact that as a trainee solicitor you have to spend a year minimum (and if you haven’t done a law degree two years minimum) studying while receiving a minimal grant (mine is £12k during the first year of study and £20k during the second year) instead of earning £80k upwards straight out of university in alternative career paths. It’s essentially compensation for the opportunity cost of having to study full-time instead of being able to work in a high-paying career straight out of university.

OP - if you're a partner in your firm, do you have full sight of the the finances? Obviously not asking you to share them with us, but you do need to consider if you're being treated fairly in a not very good firm, or they're taking the absolute piss out of you.

Your point confirms that the people they recruit really ARE the best. If you’re clever enough to get to Oxford and are fluent in mandarin, you’re not “average”.

It’s the norm in London at good firms.

No one is starting on £30k even when training.

OP, it sounds like you know nothing about your industry.

You also spelt practice wrong which may explain why you haven’t progressed.

I’d also be concerned about the profitability of your Practice. £60k is nothing for a lawyer. NQs in the regions get more than that!

The type of work done in the City is different. I’m fed up of lawyers from the regions complaining about London salaries. Move then.

I'm not in law our grads are paid 60 starting.

Which one of those snobby law firms rejected you?

This
It's like the shop assistant in poundland complaining they aren't getting hundreds of pounds of commission like a salesperson in a luxury car dealership - 2 different roles.

Also if you're 56 then you wouldn't have had to pay a penny in tuition whereas new graduates are coming out £50-80k in debt. Which, yes the 0.1% earning £150k will pay off quickly but the vast majority who will end up doing normal jobs in legal fields - like you - will be paying it off for the rest of their lives. So you should be thinking how lucky you are.

It's all about the rates the lawyer can be charged out at. Corporate and global insurer client rates are way in excess if what a high street solicitor can charge "ordinary" clients. Even NQs can be charged out at £3-400ph, and they're expected to work crazy hours, hence the commensurate salary.

It's true that their experience is more limited but don't forget they'll have done two years training and most will also have done paralegal work, vacation placements etc and they'll be supervised by partners and senior associates. They aren't roles that are easy to walk into either (ask me how I know ...) They tend to be very high achievers with excellent academics who perform very well in day long assessment centres.

I'm a salaried partner at a big global firm in London but the business stream I work in has only composite UK insurer clients where the rates are much lower than in the global business streams. Consequently our salaries are lower too. Our NQs are paid half as much as some of the corporate departments and that does mean that the applicants we get are not of the same calibre. Some gems, yes, but they tend to hot foot it over to another department after a while and who can blame them. Sadly it's a bit late for me (age 50). Composite insurer rates weren't so strikingly different when I started out but they haven't increased in the last 20 years and I'm stuck in my lane now. Oh well, roll on retirement!

You sound a bit bitter.

making an observation doesn't make someone sound bitter

I work in the NHS - with 3 relevant degrees, a couple of postgrad diplomas and 20+ years of experience, I earn a fraction of that. And I am well paid compared to most non managers in the NHS. Its obscene. To be fair, the way they work people in those firms is horrible. But no one should be worth that much out of uni.

was that the tone deaf post/article in LinkedIn about how £150k isn't that much for the poor poppets once you take into account cost of living in London and the hours they work - claiming that net they're 'only' earning £60 per hour?

How we laughed!

Probably not but they’ll expect their pound of flesh for it, toxic work environment and burn out beckons. Look at that poor woman who was a partner in Pinsents who tragically took her own life. Not for me thanks. I work to live not live to work and am happy with my role and salary. A lot of other lawyers I know are funny people though and their self worth is tied up in how much they slog their guts out to benefit other people, for work that at the end of the day no one dies if they don’t do.

Exactly!

These type of firms get their money out of you! As a trainee / NQ there it is likely to be VERY long hours , working round the clock with little work life balance.

They are not initially worth that. Mc firms pay them for the potential. They know they will get the value from them in the long run, not to mention they work horrendously long hours so that actual pay for hours worked is less lucrative.

Yabu and bitter.

I was a trainee at one of those firms. Sleeping under desks, not going home for days, and cancelling longed-for holidays was routine. They have to pay those kinds of salaries to attract and retain the necessary talent to run a "best in business" law firm. I worked with some of the most intelligent and talented people I've ever met, and yes, they deserved their salaries.

You've made choices about where you live, where you work and the type of work you do. So have they. You are each paid accordingly.

I took a step back from the MC, which was also a choice. I earn less than one of these NQs now as a 6 PQE lawyer, but I love my job. I did not love my training contract.

If an NQ works 60 hours a week (very routine) they are on the equivalent of £9.61 an hour. Less than minimum wage. Think about that for a minute, OP. Your bitterness is misplaced.

Calling firms 'snobby' does make the OP sound bitter

She is 31 and only recently qualified as a solicitor so its not too bad. she is single and no kids and doesnt mind doing the work now for a pay off later, but she is always looking for the next role.

she has been headhunted for another role already and thats in the 6 figures.

Law firms aren't charities. If they didn't think the new lawyers were worth that much, they wouldn't pay them that much.

Exactly. OP sounds jealous.