Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

[spanieleyes22]

I know I will be slated for saying this but just reading a thread from a poster who is disappointed that there is not a more formal dress code at work and so many people saying everyone is more casual in offices all over the place and suits are more worn by older people in the city. Yet schools seem to put so much faith in whether a boy keeps his shirt tucked in or how short a girls skirt is. God forbid they dye their hair or have more than 1 stud earring. Isn't it time for schools to loosen up wrt dress code? In the Scandinavian countries there is no uniform. Does this mean their teenagers are wild and don't learn anything. Why are we so hung up on not allowing teenagers to express themselves.

It’s cheaper because they don’t need any additional clothes - DT’s wear the same clothes during the school day as they do after school, weekends and holidays.

If uniforms are required it should be a plain black tracksuit and a polo shirt for all years. It is ridiculous in this day and age that we send our kids out in mini suits for no reason but academies trying to assert some power.

It isn't a leveller, it doesn't mean kids don't know who the poor kids are. They all know. Teaching kindness to others less fortunate should be a given by parents anyway! Tackle bullying properly not dress it up in a uniform policy.

Most other countries don't have uniform and get better exam results and have better behaved students. What is going on in the UK? Is it cos of all the pointless rules on this, and speaking in class, and walking in silence etc.... that the kids feel the need to act out.

I have worked in numerous schools over my years in pastoral care and I can honestly say uniform rules are all bullshit. Yes there is excitement on a non uniform day as its a novelty. Do it every day and it would calm down very quickly.

Voice of reason!👏

To the person saying about Scandinavia etc- I saw very little poverty when we were there but also very little that we might call high 'fashion' - all teens seemed to dress the same

Here- not so much- given the amount of income disparity I think it best to stick to uniforms.

The kids don't have pride in their appearance when wearing uniform - just have a look at the mess they look on their way home from school - especially on a summer day when they are over-heating. I mean all that cheap ill fitting polyester what more could we expect?
Still we think our kids need 13 years of practice to wearing a uniform so they can learn how to tuck their shirt in - what poor expectations we have on their ability to pick things up quickly!🙄

I can’t stand them - I hate that - by and large - the messaging is directed at girls that they have to dress a certain way not to be a distraction or at risk. it also reinforces that message to boys that it’s the girls fault because of what they are wearing. (I’m a CSA therapist and it absolutely breaks my heart hearing the girls question themselves)

the flip side is the only way they can experiment with their style is the length of their skirt.

if they are going to experiment with clothing - I’d much rather them do it while I’m about to help discuss any pros/cons (eg what’s interview appropriate) than when they are off at uni without any guidance.

I grew up without uniforms (different country) and noticed a few things :

1. there was less interest in brands because there was so many different ways to explore your identity .
2. if you were interested in brands - it was cheaper because you weren’t restricted to coats and shoes which tend to be more expensive- you could get a T-shirt or something small
3. while I fully support people wearing whatever they like - sadly we don’t live in a world wear girls and women can wear certain outfits without drawing attention to themselves . By and large , girls wear a lot less here and I think they don’t get the chance to explore things beyond the length of their skirt . Part of me happily waves my feminist flag and says you go girl - part of me is horrified at the thought of my little girl going out how i used to dress when I moved back to the uk ! 😂

This. My understanding is that uniforms make everyone equal and the lesser we’ll off kids therefore don’t feel so different to their peers.

Maybe schools could relax a bit on some aspects like hair colour and earrings. Suitable length skirts though I think should be adhered to. Just my experience but the children in my town literally have skirts that are maybe 3 inches long at most.

My school actually had a different summer and winter uniform. I think that's a bit much but I have said before, the PE kit should be suitable to be worn when we do have temperatures hitting the 30s.

I also think there should be more choice, flight attendants all used to wear something similar to a school uniform but more recently they have introduced more options (OK not all airlines) I think BA has options of a jumpsuit, trousers, dress or skirt and a tunic / trousers combo.

I've taught girls who will not remove a jumper because their shirts are thin and show their underwear.

My cousins in Australia had a sort of uniform at primary, it was basically red, white and blue so you could wear trousers, skirts, shorts, pinafores.

On PE day they had to have something suitable for PE but it could be something you took in or you could spend the day in a tracksuit.

It seemed to work well and allowed for different sizes and shapes.

No. Behind the times means having to wear a straw boater or a cap to School.

My local secondary has always been blazers and tie for boys, blazers and blouse (open neck shirt) for girls. This year decided to move with the times... girls now have to wear shirt and tie too! If you're going to modernise get rid of blazer and ties! Presumably it was introduced way back, to reflect formal work wear. We're not there anymore. In most offices you'd look like you were leaving at lunch to attend a funeral or stand in the dock!

Also my child is currently below the first percentile and I’ve been told we’ll need to get her uniforms custom made . That is absolutely not happening on my paycheck 😂

and I’ve spent so long reinforcing the message that she needs to find clothing that makes her body happy - it makes me feel a bit sick that she’ll then have 13 years of being forced into something that may not make her feel happy and confident. I have a huge bum and tiny waist - I’m very limited in clothes that I can wear - I can imagine school uniforms would have made what was a bit of body conciousness as a teen absolutely unbearable.

and finally - schools may have mottos and values that don’t align with our family values . The vast majority of the schools around here are CoE and I’m strongly atheist- she’s a child so she’s obviously agnostic. I don’t want her walking around with God on her chest when it’s actively against my belief system - and she’s too little to understand the nuances of organised religion.

in short - my child is not wearing a uniform if I can help it!

Except I went to a non-uniform school and this emphatically wasn’t the case .

(former teacher - currently work in schools as a therapist so hopefully I meet your criteria for commenting )

I like uniform however I think uniforms need to change they are just not practical for school or a changing climate. Polyester blazers - horrible sweaty things - not warm enough in winter, too hot in summer. Ties - heath and safety hazards, get lost, grabbed I could go on. Formal skirts/trousers - again often not practical. Let's have uniforms that are smart and practical, particularly at secondary age. Polo shirts/swearshirts/cargo trousers/rain jackets/ shorts option in summer. Most professions that have uniform have changed to a practical version - let's do the same for schools.

Disagree that polo shirts are "smart". They look rubbish on almost everybody, including most adults. You can get away with them if you're Daniel Craig or someone.

I like uniforms in general. Agreed polyester blazers for secondary aren’t very nice - on the other hand when I was at school the boys had to wear proper wool suits that were dry clean only - at least polyester blazers can be washed!

My DS is still at primary and the uniform isn’t too bad - it is smart (shirts and ties from year 3) but only the tie, the school jumper and the PE polo shirt are branded, everything else can be bought from supermarkets.

When I was at secondary school (late 90s/early 2000s) I remember being totally shocked by the ridiculous number of uniform items I needed for PE - shorts/joggers and branded polo shirt, long hockey socks, shin pads, hockey stick and special hockey boots, gym skirt and gym knickers (bizarrely, not worn for indoor gymnastics but for tennis, rounders etc in the summer). The PE gear alone must’ve cost hundreds? Boys had to have all the rugby and cricket paraphernalia in place of hockey and gym skirts. Absolute madness for two hours of PE a week!!

Just don't apply to the church schools or the ones who have a uniform you disapprove of.

But probably you'll apply to a church school with a strict uniform policy and spend the next ten years moaning about it and how it's discriminatory to your child, and finding little ways to circumvent it.

I am a teacher of 15 years and I get what you're saying. I don't know about you but I spend a lot of time in escalated situations with students because they're carrying a coat, have mascara on, their hair was dyed blonde, their socks have frills or their shoes have a diamante on the buckle. I don't think there is anything wrong with scaling back the minute rules of uniform to prevent these interactions. I'm not saying lets make it a free for all, but I don't believe that one pair of stud earring would become hundreds, and the girls who spend all day on make-up are already doing that....they're just also shouting abuse at myself and SLT for the battle to get them to take it off, which then leads to a day in isolation and yet more of my subject missed. I say lets pull back on uniform and deal more with students who are abusive or abscond from lessons.

I'm a fan of simple, affordable uniform.

The total cost of everything that has to be bought at the uniform shop for DDs school is... £45 (blazer, tie, pe tshirt). Plus obviously the shirts, trousers, pe shorts/leggings, shoes, but they are all generic. Small logos allowed (like a Nike tick, but not big letters down the whole leg).
They ask that haircuts are low maintenance to avoid pressure for expensive ones.

The school skirt is unfortunately expensive m, but girls can wear trousers. They could do with making that a generic grey instead.

Second hand is easily obtainable through both the school and local church.

Maybe the blazer could be replaced with a hoodie or sweat shirt. Or the shirts with a polo shirt (but white polos look horrible quickly... maybe a pale blue...)

I’m pro uniform. Kids don’t need to ‘express themselves’ through clothes at school.

I've been a primary teacher for 15 years and love my child's school's policy of non-uniform. I also loved it during the summer term of 2020 when R,Y1 and Y6 were were back in my school in non-uniform. This thread is almost like 2 different discussions at once though - primary and secondary are very different beasts.

I post this on every uniform thread but here goes. Teachers hate uniform. They hate wasting lesson time discussing trainers, blazers , shirt tucked in, skirt length etc etc.

Parents overwhelmingly choose schools with uniform because it removes the arguments about clothing from home to school. And because we’re led to believe private schools are the best, they like that their school mimics that ethos.

There is no evidence that uniform improves learning ~ as schools throughout Europe and the US demonstrate.

Once you have uniform, the school has to enforce it or it gets undermined logo by logo. The day we get set free from uniform will be worth celebrating and teachers will be first in the queue.

Where we live most schools have a dreas code rather than a uniform, it causes the same problems as like in the UK a significant number of pupils ignore the dress code so have to be sent home to change etc. Last week it was warm here too, a boy walked into school when I was dropping our son off in a pair of shorts and no top, not having uniform doesn’t get rid of the problem.

I commute on the train. The only people dressing formally are the school kids.
All blokes wear smart jeans and poss a polo shirt.
However, a school uniform sorts out all sorts of issues. Dd3 is about to finish year 11 and her school is strict on uniform. I think she has had 2 blazers, 4 skirts and maybe 6/8 blouses. Add in maybe 3 pairs of docs/kickers.
Hell of a lot cheaper than the nightmare of "what to wear to School for 5 years!"

As others have said, uniforms are a great equaliser. It saved me from a lot of anxiety growing up. And as for strict rules like earrings, hair dye, skirt length, etc - to my mind that’s all about standards. I think of it like table manners or polite speech; you don’t have to adhere to the standards all the time, but you need to be able to when required. It’s a life skill.

There’s still plenty of time for self expression when you’re young, and self expression through other channels (art, music, sport) should be encouraged as well. I don’t believe anyone’s creativity is truly stifled because they have to wear a shirt and tie until 4pm as a teenager.