Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

[spanieleyes22]

I know I will be slated for saying this but just reading a thread from a poster who is disappointed that there is not a more formal dress code at work and so many people saying everyone is more casual in offices all over the place and suits are more worn by older people in the city. Yet schools seem to put so much faith in whether a boy keeps his shirt tucked in or how short a girls skirt is. God forbid they dye their hair or have more than 1 stud earring. Isn't it time for schools to loosen up wrt dress code? In the Scandinavian countries there is no uniform. Does this mean their teenagers are wild and don't learn anything. Why are we so hung up on not allowing teenagers to express themselves.

They’re a good leveller, there’s huge pressure on kids to wear the “right things”. Ultimately, you a child to a school and you therefore sign up to their rules and standards. Complaining about it afterwards is typical of entitled parents acting like brats because little Sebastian is actually incapable of following some basic rules. Maybe they don’t have uniforms in Scandinavia but I bet they also don’t have a plethora of entitled adults passing on their behaviour to their children and complaining like it’s someone else’s fault.

It's not only Scandinavia, but the vast majority of Europe (see map).

A school locally didn’t have a uniform - the pupils campaigned for years to get one but only finally did with a change of head. I wish our local school had a minimum skirt length; it would be a huge relief to most of the girls who don’t actually like having skirts so short they have to constantly adjust them to stop flashing their crotch and are freezing in winter. Teens feel pressure to conform and a strict uniform removes that pressure.

Completely true. The UK (and Ireland, probably due to a colonial hangover) are the outliers in Europe. Does that mean other countries have a massive problem with bullying in schools as the students don't wear uniform? Clearly not.
The excessive policing/control of student dress and details re. uniform in the UK is draconian and a really poor reflection on the educational culture.

And yet a lot of them go on to universities and wear exactly that and yet they also seem to learn and get a degree! It's amazing that isn't it?

Most work places with a uniform, do monitor its wear so your boss might well tell you to wear a jacket in hot weather. But in any case, an issue with a blazer is different from the question of uniforms. A blazer is not required in order for a school to have a uniform.

When I was in Year 9 (or 3rd year as we called it then) we campaigned for the uniform to become stricter and won. It became compulsory for girls to wear the blazer through to the end of year 11 when it had previously been only till the end of lower school or year 9 but for the boys all the way through.

We also won the change to allow us to wear black tights when it had previously only been bottle green, to not have a different coloured shirt in lower school and to be allowed box pleat skirts instead of just the pencil style with 2 pleats. So all the changes voted for were practical, including keeping the blazer. So many pockets.

The girls wear skin tight leggings or all in ones with crop tops - also not appropriate for a learning environment. Why is it not appropriate?

And yet most secondaries have a blazer and charge a fortune for them! Something people in the workplace don't have to do. I have had uniforms in the workplace over the years. Not once have I ever had to pay for it and you also got a small amount of tax refunded for having to wash it at home.

By the way, even in countries that do have 'uniforms' they're usually far far less rigid than the UK. In some South American countries there are what are called 'guardapolvos' - that is, just a plain light coat worn indoors over regular clothes - a bit like a doctor's white coat. It's to protect clothes and I guess maybe it's a leveller in terms of fashionability or not of student clothes. In China, it's often just a sweater or t-shirt with the school logo/crest on it.

So for those posters who are keen on uniform, do you really think environmentally unfriendly polyester suits and ties are a good thing?

I can only think of two local secondaries that have blazers. Most just have sweatshirts (that many older pupils don’t like as don’t feel smart enough).

The only reason non-uniform days are such a big thing is because they're unusual, so everyone digs out their best/ most show-off clothes.

I grew up without uniform. If you wore anything too outrageous, you had the piss taken out of you for the day and you learned to dress more appropriately by the next day. No one cared if we wore the same outfit every week (and as growing children that was rarely the case anyway); it didn't take clothes to distinguish between the haves and have-nots.

I can tell if a kid is poor even if they're in uniform, so can everyone else. Uniform is not a leveller. Some here argue that some may only have one or two outfits to wear - well, given the price of school uniform, they may a) be able to afford more and b) will still, perhaps, only have one or two outfits and you can easily tell if someone has to wear the same shirt three times a week.

I am a strong advocate against uniform, especially those that also dictate the students' sock colour, hair colours, hair style and body art. It gives teenagers one more thing to rebel against, parents one more thing to worry about (Will it fit? Is it washed? Will the shoes be banned next week?), teachers one more thing to deal with at work.

Very much the same. And the unkind behaviour is off the chart on those days.

Those who say uniform is leveler are incorrect. I wore a strict uniform and was still bullied for my shoes/bag etc

Kids would learn better if they were comfortable. Forcing kids to wear a blazer in summer is gross.

I don't know why blazers became such a thing.

Polo shirt and jumper/sweatshirt is absolutely fine and smart.

I really don't think uniform is necessary though.

I have a friend who gained a prestigious visiting fellowship in America - there were about 20 established British academics who got them. On day 3 of their induction week the organiser cancelled the planned activities and sent them shopping instead; they were all very under-dressed compared to the established dress culture in American universities. They were instructed to buy smarter clothes and suits in order to be taken seriously within that culture.

They weren't students though were they? You are talking about working adults and a different dress culture in the workplace. In the UK we are more casual now for workplace attire.

We didn't have uniform for first few years of school. Kids got assaulted and their expensive trainers stolen, bullying over not having the latest or expensive clothes and shoes. Pressure on parents to buy lots of clothes.

Uniform stopped all this

I asked this earlier but what is going on with UK students that they behave like this when a high proportion of the rest of the world don't have these issues of assaults for trainers and bullying over clothes. Because it was happening in the rest of the world and it was all solved instantly with uniform why do they not all change to uniform?

Is it lack of parenting and students behaving how the hell they want? Is it a cultural thing? Is it feral kids?

I would love to know the answer.

Very patronising but anyway. They are 18-21 when at University and adults. A university setting is completely different to a mixed comprehensive (11-16 year olds) where we are battling with behaviour issues on a daily basis.

Honestly you've very naive if you think that there wouldn't be pressure on kids to wear the latest gear or have lots of changes of clothes.
We had no uniform in our national school and it absolutely was a thing even back then.
My kids go to a tracksuit only national school and it's fab. They can 'express' themselves later!

This country has an absolute bee in its bonnet about school uniform.

I've always been very anti. The continent and the vast majority of the US does very well without it (and for some time those areas have been outstripping the UK academically).

A dress code, ie no. inappropriate stuff (ie. fetish gear; yes, it does happen, in unviersities for one), no over-short skirts and no 'extreme' looks (ie dressing in steampunk kit) is easy enough to impose without needing a fullscale uniform with blazer and tie. (Ties are the most useless and unnecessary item of clothing ever).

There needs to be more attention paid to treating issues like bullying with the seriousness it merits, and to driving up educational standards. A disproportionate degree of energy is being expended in a direction which simply doesn't justify it.

NB. I'm an educator.

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A kid at our school got assaulted over school league football - should we ban that too? What kind of example is that showing - violence and assault and let's blame the victim for wearing fancy trainers. How about we deal with the behaviour? That might produce better long-term results.

🙄 Sounds pretty dramatic. My dcs didn't have uniform in primary and had none of this. They have uniform in secondary, and guess what - more bullying. If teachers spent more time on tackling bullying and less on measuring skirt lengths or policing shoe types it would be a good thing all around.

It's such a lazy if time consuming way out - the idea that conformity to a dress code in itself means good behaviour follows or is legible.

I remember having none uniform day at high school it lasted 2 weeks.
My mother loved it she said it should have stayed that way it was so much easier.
And the kids were more relaxed.

All our local schools just have sweaters, not a single one has a blazer.
My niece attends the same secondary school me and my siblings went to. Blazer is compulsory until the end of Y10. In Year 11 they can wear the sweaters. I don't know a single person from that school who didn't rejoice on the last day of Y10, as they no longer had to wear the blazer.
Most students burned them (honestly, they had burn the blazer bonfires in the summer).