Would you fly on a 737 MAX plane?

[yellowblue20]

Booking a flight where the cheapest flight is on a 737 MAX, if I want to fly on another plane It is minimum £120 more.

Given its history, would you feel comfortable flying on a 737 MAX?

I am very anxious

Ex-Boeing pilots POV, so health warning that I don’t have as much of an inside track as some current Boeing pilots do.

Yes there are are definitely problems with the recent culture at Boeing, yes, there are stones that need overturning and people do have questions to answer but there are also more than a few problems with the way this is being presented to the general public ATM:

Firstly any incident involving a Boeing gets massive attention in the MSM..but if you follow general aviation newsfeeds you’ll see there’s a spread of incidents across all type - e.g. the BA Airbus diversion into (?) Amsterdam a few days back with smoke/fumes didn’t generate that much newsprint. At a daily level there are diversions/returns to base on types various that don’t make the news at all, because they are not newsworthy because there’s no Boeing involvement.

Secondly even if a Boeing aircraft is involved in an incident that is nowt to do with them (runway overrun - Africa recently, wheel falling off a 777 elsewhere a month or two back) it’s a “ Another Boeing …” headline and portrayed as a Boeing problem, rather than a downstream human factors issue or airline maintenance issue.

Thirdly incidents involving aircraft that were designed well before any culture change (e.g. 767, 747, 777) tend to get caught up in the generic “oh look another problem with Boeings….”

As for the Max, as others have now probably the most checked airline in the inventory.

As for avoiding one…..good luck with that, they’re increasingly common…and with the amount of wet leasing going on ATM there’s a fair chance what you see on your booking might not be what arrives at the gate, so the determined avoiders had better be good at aircraft recognition.

Also it wouldn’t just be dropping him at the terminal. If a passenger gets off after boarding, everyone has to deplane and go through security checks again.

That’s not always the case.

It happened to me on a flight that was delayed after boarding for over 2 hours and guy decided he wanted to get off. It was one of the reasons they gave to try and convince him to stay on the plane. The crew and airport staff said it was standard as they visor the concern is someone has boarded, put a dangerous device on the plane, then got off again. They said even if the person gets off because of a medical emergency they do it. It made total sense to me that this would be standard and I can’t imagine it doesn’t always happen.

@Rollinroller

The crew and airport staff said it was standard

That might be what you were told but I can promise you it’s definitely not (or certainly was not) standard across the industry….

As far as an individual carrying a dangerous device into that cabin goes…have a think about the whole scenario.

Getting hold bags off if somebody who chooses not to travel is another matter.

You can attempt to patronise me as much as you like. This is what happened.

I’m sure it was, I’m sure it is what you were told, it may have been that airline’s policy.

I’m not patronizing you, just pointing out that offloading everybody and putting them through security because one passenger gets on and then off again, for whatever reason, is not, well most certainly was not in my time flying, industry standard.

@backinthebox I know all that. I'm an aviation enthusiast and hold a PPL. Sure, it's not a commercial licence, but it's a just a personal feeling. I'd rather not fly on a MAX aircraft if I had the option not to.

I think two fatal crashes in close succession followed by the spare door blowing out is enough to knock the general public's confidence in an aircraft for a time. I know the issues with MCAS have been addressed, but we as passengers can still have a gut feeling.

Much like how after Malaysian Airlines offered refunds on tickets after MH370 and MH17. I remember them saying "we'd understand if you didn't want to fly with us". Confidence was knocked, even though MH17 was not their fault at all.

@backinthebox

Slightly OT but I am another who would love to read an AMA from you.

This thread is gold! 🤣 I don’t know who @notimagain is in RL, but I suspect we have shared a flight deck at some point in our past. (Did we wear our abayas in rakish fashion in Jeddah?) She’s the only person here, to my knowledge, with more aviation experience than me. I find it hilarious that she is being lectured on the finer points on aviation practices.

@Rollinroller, it is not industry standard to offload everyone and reload them all. However, we don’t know the full circumstances of your flight (and I would hazard a guess that you don’t know the full circumstances either) so your’s may be an unusual situation. This is not to say this occurs in all situations. It’s a bit off to patronise an experienced airline pilot explaining this to you though.

For those asking for an AMA, I did one once. It wasn’t as exciting as you might think. 🤣

@backinthebox

Did we wear our abayas in rakish fashion in Jeddah?

Morning,

Not me boss, thinking back that was one of the very few places on the network I managed to completely avoid…😄

ATB, remember to keep the blue bit at the top of the screen.

To be fair to @Rollinroller , the fault lies with the cabin crew and airport staff who told her that offloading everyone was “standard practice”. She’s only telling us that this is what another aviation professional told her, rather than insisting herself that is standard practice.

Funnily enough, my job (insurance related) often involves having to review a sequence of events when an incident happens on an aircraft. It’s amazing how much misinformation is bandied about in the cabin and by ground staff. On the other hand, pilots are usually pretty accurate.

I wouldn't as there are real issues with this particular Boeing. One airline that does not use the Max is Easyjet.

Husband is in that industry (aircraft safety) and he said he wouldn't have an issue

I was on a plane last week. A teenage passenger behind me started to film the safety briefing. The cabin crew member stopped the briefing, told him to put the phone down and then marched over and told him to prove that it was deleted, including from deleted items. When the teen (who did not say a word) hesitated briefly trying to find their deleted items folder the cabin crew member said “unless I see you remove that from your deleted items folder right now I will have no option but to call the police to arrest you on landing at our destination”.

Now, I am well aware that airlines can and should be able to have disruptive passengers detained by police. But the speed at which the situation escalated was insane. The kid didn’t know it was illegal to film and had stopped straight away.

Is it illegal? I mean it's so standard I can't imagine there's an issue with the content of the safety briefing, more about filming people without their consent and potentially posting the video online.

@backinthebox Good answers which I can very much appreciate as to how correct they are.

If for any reason, the aircraft is tech, crew are out of hours plus goodness knows many other reasons, there may be a change of aircraft type. You could book a holiday on an Airbus and actually fly on a Boeing.

You can find accidents for any aircraft type if you look for them. The rudder issue with B737 happened far more frequently than ever was publicised, yet the B737 still remains the most flown aircraft type in the world.

Book the holiday/flight which works for you but understand things can change.

I won't fly on a 737 Max.

As of February 2024, there have been a total of 529 aviation accidents and incidents involving all 737 aircraft (not all are notable enough for inclusion on this list), which have resulted in a total of 5,779 fatalities and 234 hull losses

Source here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_737

yes, having looked it up it’s not illegal as in a crime but it could be unlawful as against the airline’s own terms and conditions which often prohibit filming crew and other passengers. Possibly also an element of interfering with the briefing/not paying attention which could compromise safety, and that gives cc discretion to tell you to stop. Then acting disruptively by disobeying crew instructions would be criminal and that would be the reason police could get involved. So huge stretch for the cc member to say “prove you deleted or I call police”.

Yes. There's been 69 Boeing 747 crashes. 30 777 crashes.

I've flown on both countless times and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

You may as well ask whether you'd travel in a Land Rover given there's been several thousand crashes in them.

What a self centred little princess

Please can you provide the source for your claim?

I think it's more about the recent crashes where pilots were dealing with unknown issues caused by software.

Plus that door flying off midflight...

Accidents may happen, but this goes beyond that.

Agreed.

> " Yes. There's been 69 Boeing 747 crashes. 30 x 777 crashes. "

Also, yes the 747 has had accidents, but this is for all 747 models.

Yet we are really discussing the 737 Max which is the one with a poor record.

This is sobering:

" In 2021, Boeing paid US$2.5 billion in penalties and compensation to settle the DOJ's fraud conspiracy case against the company.[10][11]Further investigations revealed the FAA and Boeing had colluded on recertification test flights and attempted to cover up important information, and that the FAA had retaliated against whistleblowers"

source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX

I think if you’re worried about the risk of a plane crashing it’s best not to fly on any plane, the risk is minuscule but it’s always there are you never know if you will be that one in a million. I don’t think flying on a 737 Max makes the risk significantly greater than flying on any other plane, either you’re willing to risk flying or you’re not really. Imagine purposefully trying to avoid the 737 Max, consciously choosing another plane and how it will feel in those last seconds before impact if the plane you chose to be safer ended up being the one that crashed with you on it.