Is this destructive or normal behaviour?

[TheGoodPlace24]

My 9 year old daughter I feel is very destructive. I’m very upset right now and obviously can’t discuss or impose any sanctions as she’s asleep in bed. I put kids to sleep and thought I’d crack on with the ironing and found the brand new starch spray bottle was completely empty! I know she’s done it as when I was with youngest downstairs I heard a spray sound and assumed she sprayed the air freshener in toilet, didn’t hear the whole bottle sprayed as she must have gone in a different room to do. In the hallway upstairs I can feel the carpet is wet.

Just this afternoon when I was cleaning the kitchen I found sugar sprinkled in the cupboard. I questioned her when she got back from school and she denied it. I didn’t pursue this anymore as we were running late for swimming and I forgot when we got home. I have now hidden sugar away as I have noticed sugar sprinkles on the counter too lots of times and only recently connected it to her. I just feel so upset that she felt the need to sprinkle it in the cupboard. We had lots of ants recently and now I know the reason!

the above is just 2 things from today.

other things in the past which I posted about under a different username were throwing a whole bottle of baby oil on all the walls in the house (to this day the baby oil has not come out and looks awful but I’ve kind of gotten used to it so doesn’t bother me do much). Also filling my work shoes with water then denying it completely.

I feel so lost. Could I please have sone support and guidance from mums who have been through this themselves or just want to give me some insight on why she is like this.

What's she trying to communicate? She wants your attention. Is anything else going on?

Lots of armchair psychologists here and I’m going to add to it. It reminds me of this.

Sounds a lot like my 10 year old, but he is autistic and has ADHD so is a sensory-seeker and doesn't have the same level of impulse control as most kids his age. I did laugh, I will admit, when I saw the baby oil bit as my son did exactly the same, but then threw talcum powder all over the oil too. This was in lockdown so he was a bit younger and struggling with all the changes (we also didn't know he was ND then). As we've understood him more and he's felt better supported, a lot of this behaviour has subsided.

I’m no dr, but I would be freaked out if my child was acting like that, sounds at bit psychopath like in actively trying to be secretly destructive and devious to upset you. I could be completely wrong but that was my first thought!

This has brought back the memory of an idiotic thing I did at age 9, shortly after moving into our new house. I was mad at my dad for something so I (allegedly) wrote all over the wall of my bedroom closet in cursive, which we were learning at school. When he saw it, I denied it and tried to blame it on the girl who had lived in the house previously.

He must have had a great laugh because the thing I wrote in about 8 different places was my own full legal name. 😆 It’s still there 32 years later and I still maintain that I was obviously set up by the previous girl who had that room. 😇

It was a while back for me, but my daughter had very poor impulse control as a kid, she destroyed her room so many times, cut cables with nail clippers, posted coins into the cd player, and once smashed a window. Some of it was burgeoning hormones and some of it was because of bullying at school I found out later.

She's now a well adjusted adult, home owner and a wonderful mother of a 5 month old, it does get better.

I remember the horror and exhaustion of it all but talking, rationalising with her, lots of tears from both of us and endless hugs really helped.

It definitely sounds more like a sensory thing than being destructive. I remember making potions emptying my mums products into the sink etc. I assume she doesn’t have any additional needs as you didn’t mention it? Maybe try something like kinetic sand or slime making?

Please don’t do this. What are you hoping she’ll learn? The consequence is completely illogical. She’s clearly trying to communicate something with her behaviour; an unmet sensory need perhaps. I’d advise looking up more up to date parenting and discipline methods. Dr Martha gives fantastic evidence based advice. She’s very active on Instagram and has a great book out: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Be-Grown-Up-Parenting-Starts/dp/1787636887/ref=asc_df_1787636887/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=658844159684&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13976629687003753093&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046231&hvtargid=pla-2195202015289&psc=1&mcid=554fe36d733439ae903d5fce00458fe6&th=1&psc=1

My son’s behaviour started to change to being more naughty recently. When I asked him why he was doing these things he said he watched it on YouTube prank videos. I hold my hands up and say I knew he watched some YouTubers but it all seemed harmless until I actually sat down and properly watched them. It was doing things similar to what you’ve described and they film the parents reaction, usually over the top, cringy poor acting screams so obviously those parents being filmed know what’s happening. He said he was just trying to make me laugh/be a YouTuber. Not saying this is what is happening for you but maybe it’s an avenue you hadn’t thought about. We stopped all access to youtube after that and we seen a huge improvement in his attitude. I hope things get better.

At 9 she knows what she is doing is wrong. She is getting away with lying about it too. I would be taking her iPad, etc and giving her boring chores like “helping” you fold laundry/empty dishwasher, etc. (Usually makes it take ten times longer). I would also ask if she has been doing weird attention-seeking things at school.

I remember your previous thread, in which your child was slowly but surely declared a psychopath which was obviously highly ridiculous. What have you done and changed in the meantime because I don’t think there is any merit in users giving the same responses and recommendations once again.I am quite sure that the collective advice to seek professional help, so I hope you took that on.

@TheGoodPlace24 Sounds like she is bored. Have you tried getting her to help you with stuff like cooking or laundry. Even if you find an arbitrary task to do alongside you she is getting 1:1 time, something to do and also learning to respect how the house needs work to keep clean. Definitely involve her in problem solving the baby oil stains, research together, clean it together-make it a joint project.

Sugar, could just be sneaking a snack. I used to nick cubes of unmelted jelly when I had sugar cravings as a kid. Is there access to healthy food freely. (Not meaning to be judgmental, just kids have growth spurts at all ages and could be that what they normally eat is suddenly not enough)

I wouldn’t say this is usual behaviour for a 9 year old, a toddler yes but not older child. Is there something happening at school such as bullying etc? Could be her way of letting out her frustrations/upset? Worth speaking to teacher to see how she’s behaving there. It’s also sounding a lot like neurodiverse issue such as adhd or similar. I’ve been working with kids for 30 years now and would def say there is something behind this behaviour and not just “naughty” at this age. As above I’d ask her why she’s done something, if it makes her feel happy/sad/in control and def speak to school as well. They can refer you to further help but you will prob need to be firm and proactive about it as they are so overwhelmed with children needing extra support. Most of all loving and being supportive of her, one on one time where you can and just being there for her.. so hard for you both having to deal with this. Lots of luck

I like the idea of giving her stuff to mess around with. Maybe a toy chemistry set? You can get some good things like homemade volcanos.

@TheGoodPlace24 I think this was your old thread? I think it would be useful to hear if anything has changed since September otherwise you will probably just get the same replies as last time?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/4889427-daughter-has-wrecked-the-walls

She’s a kid, and kids are weird.
I distinctly remember when I’d be home alone I would put moisturiser on my hands and leave hand prints on every mirrored surface in the house and before my parents were home I’d frantically wipe them all off with a TOWEL.

I also once found a lighter and decided I had to burn/melt a pack of plastic straws we had. I melted every one over the kitchen sink as I knew fire was dangerous - what I didn’t know as a child was that the ash was up in the air, so when I finished and tidied up the evidence I left the kitchen rather happy with myself, until my Dad came home to see a kitchen COVERED on every surface with ash and having all electrics checked as I refused to admit it.

Also tried to make a pancake and ended up with some weird glue/ rubbery disk in the frying pan. Didn’t want to get in trouble so I walked to the local park with the entire frying pan and rubber disk to throw it in the stinging nettles. Another time I found a bottle from an unused hair dye pack and emptied it on the patio and ruined the slabs.

I have zero reason for doing any of these things, other than just being a weird kid and wanting to do it - none of it was malicious, just born from curiosity and lack of understanding that ramifications existed

Yes it's destructive. No it's not 'normal' for a 9 year old. So assuming no additional needs, I'd assume either attention seeking, or that she was angry about something. Personally I'd be straight with her (she's old enough) and tell her you know she did these things (assuming there is no doubt of course) and can she explain to you why? I'd also tell her that if she did things like that again, she would need to put them right, so clean up the sugar/go without a treat so the money could buy new starch etc. Alongside that, I'd be thinking whether there may be a possible cause I needed to address, was she getting enough of my attention/kept sufficiently occupied? Might something at home have caused her to be angry or upset...?

This.

And she thinks she’s getting away with lying about it. I would stop asking if she has done things and tell her you know she has and it’s not acceptable.

Is she anxious about something? Maybe something she hasn't so far been able to talk to you about?
I'd be curious to find out why then be accepting rather than punitive.
Good luck OP.

I'd have a chat to her, and try and aim for a logical consequence. Taking her ipad away is just punitive, it doesn't reflect the issue. I'd be discussing why she did it, making sure she cleans up the carpet instead of doing somethibg she enjoys tomorrow and cleaning the sugar/helping rid the ants and hen the key is finding out the root cause. I find positive reinforcement is always best, so if there's something she wants at the moment, can she earn it through controlling her impulse. It does sound like it's you that she's aiming for, is she wanting your attention, can you agree some golden time together every day where you do something. Slightly different but I've noticed my daughter has started singing EXTREMELY loudly (deliberately and annoyingly screeching) when I am on my phone - we discussed that it wasn't appropriate but I also conceded that I should use my phone less and bridged the need she had to pay her some attention, whilst also making sure she knows that i use it for work and sometimes will be on it. Most kids don't randomly do stuff for no reason at all, expecially at 9...

There is nothing odd about spray starch. Lightly sprayed on cotton,
it's very useful.

I could have written this myself! Also awaiting assessment for ADHD xx

My son was destructive like this and was diagnosed with ADHD later in life. Maybe worth checking as there are some symptoms that are not always obvious

I remember when I was 9 I decided to cellotape the pages of one of my mum's books together because she was always reading it and I was jealous of the attention she gave it over me. I knew at the time it was a horrible thing to do and mum was really upset and I was punished for it and I felt awful afterwards. It was an impulsive reaction at the time I didn't even plan it. Maybe there's something underlying her behaviours that is similar to what I felt?

You could ask her about that first before jumping in immediately with you did x y z and that's bad. Like, how does she feel? What's upsetting her?

Hope you get on okay and you're not too stressed. Even to this day 30 years later I still feel guilty thinking about what I did and how upset my mum was, it was awful. I never did anything like it again.

So am I! Well, it does run in families... which at least gives me some insight into why Daughter might be doing it.