I know it's been done to death but I don't think people realise how hard it is to work in a school!

[user4692821]

I work in a small village primary school in the north. I'm so used to hearing people saying "oh I'd love to work in a school so I could have the holidays off" or something along the lines of "well you can't complain as you get so much holidays with the kids" etc.

My week normally consists of:

Being called a bch 3/4 times a day
Told to shut the fk up at least once a day
Being punched
Spat at

And that's just some of the 'bad' incidents. It's not mentioning the other more 'minor' incidents that happen constantly through the day.

I work with 6/7 year olds. In a mainstream school. It's not uncommon, most TA's have similar in their classes. When we meet people from other schools they say the same.

Yet we are constantly told to be grateful we have a job that gives us time off for our kids. I 100% get that it's lucky we can have the holidays off so we don't have to pay for childcare. However what I ask myself everyday is: is this worth my mental health? Because honestly (apart from NHS jobs or similar) where would you go in to work and expected to be treated like this and paid minimum wage?

I'm surprised 6/7YOs are telling you to shut the fuck up. My DS is 7 and thinks 'oh my god' is a serious swear word. I have never heard any of his friends say anything like shut the fuck up. Do you live in a rough area? Does the school have effective behaviour policies?

The violence I can understand, I take my hats off to TAs. My DS has autism and due to lack of funding for SEN has been put in situations that he cannot cope with resulting in meltdowns at school. Until the government address this I can't see how life will get any easier in schools, for teachers, teaching assistants or for SEN DC.

But there are many jobs that experience the same issues, I previously worked for a LA and have been sworn at and threatened. I noticed the other day going through year long road works in my local town, a sign saying road workers will not tolerate abuse.

Infact I think it all comes down to the same thing. Budget cuts. Schools are expected to cope with too much, LAs and the NHS take the brunt of services being shit, the roads are not cared for, even in retail, people are struggling financially and likely stressed when shopping.

Kids push boundaries to see what they can get away with. The discipline has gone in society. Maybe in some strong communities, religious for example, society still matters.

@Redpaisely but the kids aren’t swearing are they? Which is disrespectful. So they’re doing something right. I know which school i’d rather work in.

Wow! My kids primary is the total opposite, the kids are generally well behaved, respectful of their teachers and elders, helpful and encourage each other. Exactly what kids of this age range should be like. But from speaking with my SIL I know that being a TA in a rough school across the other side of the city, it drove her out of the profession as the level of daily abuse (from parents and kids) was utterly soul destroying.

Having read this thread it’s no wonder why so many schools now have a zero tolerance policy. Katherine Birbalsingh said in a recent interview the school staff have to first parent the new year 7s before they can start teaching them I.e. teach them how to behave properly because it ain’t happening at home

They need to find suitably qualified teachers for proper cover.

From where???????

Why are parents so useless now? (at setting boundaries, enforcing discipline, bringing up respectful children etc.)

School aged kids will predominantly have millenial parents, where have they gone so wrong?

As a single parent I really worried about giving up my TTO job but it’s been almost 2 years now and I’ve never regretted it for one second.

There’s no way I would go back to working in a school now.

That is extremely shocking. But certainly doesn't happen in every school. Schools can be very different.

Can you give more context. Is this due to SEN DC who can't cope in mainstream being forced to be there?

I just asked my DD if anything like that happened at her Primary that she didn't tell me about. She just said 'Mum - of course I would have told you - I would have been so shocked!' I asked her if anything like that happens at her Secondary that she's not mentioned. She told me a girl got cross with the teacher once and called her a bitch. I know she's seen 2 fights there too.

But her Primary has 2 SEN classes so those DC aren't struggling in the main classes. I know another Primary is rubbish for SEN and they have more of these issues.
And her Secondary is great for SEN too as well as being respectful towards the DC and not having these extreme uniforms and rules etc. The experience of her friends at other Secondaries has been very, very different.

That's interesting because most schools are these zero tolerance ones now and rubbish at SEN and that's where all the bad behaviour is happening.

My DD's school great with SEN, reasonable rules and no behavioural issues.

There is something not quite right with that.

These kids will have had a lot of parenting done by primary staff, too, so the question has to be why it didn't stick.

I have worked in both school types and do partially put the blame at secondary systems here where Y7 are almost babied again compared to their experience in Y6 primary. Yes, part of it may be the lack of a decent curriculum post-SATs, but that won't be the only thing.

Y7 are often treated like they're not capable of writing long essays, handling cooking equipment, be in charge of their own toileting, getting up to get equipment etc. Secondary rooms are often not laid out in a way that enables the same amount of independence Y7 will have had just 6 months earlier at primary school, but many teachers also just don't trust them - at all.

There is notable regression between Y6 and 7 and it's not just down to hormones. Trusting my class with some fire, circuits and scalpels early on has meant much more compliance, talking to them like any 11-year-old and not a 6-year-old meant building up much better relationships. Talking to them about their experiences, it is amazing what they can already do.

Then we wonder why they kick off if they feel like suddenly, their autonomy is taken away and they are treated like children again.

That's different to allowing staff to be hit and kicked and injured in any other way. While some kids do get off lightly for telling a member of staff to fuck off (and I do regularly imagine just what environment a 6-year-old would learn this language and behaviour in), I have yet to experience any form of physical violence in secondary school directed at myself. The most I've had was a paper ball thrown my way by a Y11 for the fun of it and they got removed from my classroom. Some schools need to think about their duty of care towards their staff.

6 year olds and it is the same in private schools near you from 6 year olds? Crikey that is bad. I don’t think I recall anyone calling the Staff anything like that at my DD’s state junior school that she left only two years ago! oh actually no one child who has since been asked to leave her secondary school.

How patronising does she sound.

Secondary pupils spend about 1330 hours per year in school.

They spend about 4500 (the rest of their waking hours) out of school, with family, clubs, socialising, on screens etc.

So 23% in school, 77% out of school.

Yet teachers and other school staff feel as though they are expected to be responsible for way more than 23% of behaviour problems. It’s supposed to be education, not free childcare, therapy and social work.

My gut feeling is that too many families now have (one or two) full time parents working their backsides off paying the mortgage and bills, and too exhausted for old fashioned parenting.

And I’m not forgetting (because people do) that many teachers are also parents themselves, feeling they aren’t doing their best for their own children.

Parents trying to be their children's friend instead of their parent and/or not saying no - these are definitely issues for some non-SEN and indeed some SEN pupils (when it's 'behaviour' not directly related to the particular SEN). Parents who negotiate every little thing don't realise they're also making it harder in situations where there isn't the time or need to negotiate. For example we had acquaintances who negotiated everything at home - their children went to school unable to follow instructions.
Teacher: Now we're going to do X.
Child A: I would prefer to do Y.....proceeds to give reason to do Y.
Teacher: We're doing X just now.
Child A: repeats above.
Teacher: We're doing X, I need to explain it now.
Child A: But I.....and it continues...
One of these children was in my child's class all through primary and some of secondary and I was often informed of this happening. I also witnessed said child disrupting other things (eg kids activity sessions) in this way. Of course we should teach questioning but we also have to teach the ability to accept instruction/to hear the word no.

And without any real meaningful training! Expected to just jump in with little time for being able to understand task or expectations. It's very exploitative in my opinion.

It does feel like many services are imploding under sheer weight of numbers pressure placed upon everyone is rediculous. It isn't just schools

Sheer weight of numbers should mean adequate funding follows, but it isn't. I agree it puts pressure on everyone and can lead to negative outcomes.

I also totally agree that all services are under pressure and they shouldn't be. Like TAs, many are being taken advantage of.

I agree you can get abuse in any public facing job but what is shocking about the OP post is the behaviour and language from such young children. At that age they just copy what they observe at home and the adults around them and I think what they see on social media and that is equally shocking.

I'm a teacher. I love my job, yes there are unpleasant children, unpleasant parents and unpleasant SLT. Yes it is hard - but it's work everybody's job is hard.
You could offer me a million pounds and I wouldn't work in a shop or a call centre.
I'll take the teaching version of 'hard' for my £38k any day of the week.

and silly. As an educator she should know an obvious fact that some kids are at his/hers worse at school and at home may be angels. On the other occasion vice versa

6/7 year olds call you a bitch and tell you to shut up? It’s unbelievable! Well, any age it would be shocking. What are the repercussions for the kids?

I did 17 happy years in an FE college then they took in other students and low level courses, lots of abuse started and fighting etc, after a year , I was offered redundancy and grabbed it.....not a huge sum but now i do tutoring at homes and garden work and took my pension at 55. colleagues are still there and suffering horrendously with same type of students. I look back fondly at my previous job and days at HMRC office in essex, no stress, proper breaks and lunch, no bullying etc, no abuse....lovely colleagues and wish i had sometimes stayed there.

Working full time doesn’t mean you can’t parent. Such nonsense.