State school charging for basics.

[Purplegarland]

Another email from primary school today saying that they are not unable to subsidise school trips at all and will be fundraising/passing costs onto parents. This means that I am required to give even more money.
This month alone they have asked for almost £100 for various things. Including costs for transport, stationary, being a member of school sport teams (kit, transport, pitch/pool fees, and lunch) some of which happen in school time, and a themed day. Of course, I know that trips are optional but I don't see how I could have my child sitting out of a themed day where visitors come in to give a special talk tied into the curriculum. Add in the various charity days and requests for money for wearing blue or whatever and I am paying an absolute fortune on top of any extra curriculars my DC want to do.
Am I being unreasonable that a state school should not be passing so many costs onto parents? Think £40 for a coach on top of day trip fees.

who do you imagine should be paying for your child's sports kit?

The lack of money is the government’s fault OP, not the school.

MN hates PTAs, but they can do so much good. The village school my kids went to was always short of government funding due to it being so tiny, so the PTA filled the gap. As well as school events, we laid on things that local people could come to, and also sold raffle tickets door to door. We begged local businesses for prizes. It was bloody hard work but when my youngest child left 4 years ago there was thousands in the PTA bank account. It enabled the school to arrange trips and buy equipment. I’m a working single parent and I ran numerous events, so it’s not something only SAHMs can do.

DH and I went to school in NZ. His family was poor and he had never been on a school trip. He sat out on everything that required money. It’s great when there is funding to allow these things for free. But if there aren’t, either everyone has to lose out because some can’t afford it. Or you make the extras chargeable. I’d rather be the later so schools can still do trips, residentials, music, sports.

Whilst reading this the news is on and whilst a little off subject I think you’ll find this interesting

A new school type is proposed / opening near where I live.
It is a secure school for young offenders. Not a prison, I don’t know however if they go there after sentencing as there wasn’t a lot of detail.
However

There will be 49 pupils in the whole school at a cost of £250,000 per pupil.

I just don’t think that’s right.

Our PTA fell apart during covid and has not been resurrected. So there's no extra funds except for themed days and a summer fair. Our headteacher and two other local primaries heads have taken early retirement because of the latest cuts.

Our council tax is one of the highest in the country, and this is an example of what they spend the money on. Endless corporate chit-chat. The long-winded job description was ridiculous and full of wankspeak.

Meanwhile, they pay an absolute pittance to care home staff and other minions, who do properly useful jobs of benefit to the local community.

I don't know anything about this project I'm particularly but its worth looking at how Glasgow dealt with their knife crime problem. Focusing time and energy on community, young offenders and those most likely to go into violent crime statistically is better for society in general, and it'll cost a hell of a lot less than housing these people in jails for the rest of their life, court proceedings, etc.

Would you rather live in a country with overflowing jails and revolving door prisoners, or try to give young offenders a chance to right their lives and not go on to cause more harm in the future? Surely the second one is better for everyone and in many ways more cost effective

It always amazes me that people have children and then are bewildered when THEY are asked to pay for them! Bizarre.

We are penniless at school. I spent £90.00 buying reading books from charity shops for my class this year. In week one a book was returned in a terrible state. Teachers kill themselves sorting out events, trips and after school clubs and they DON’T do it to benefit themselves. Just pay the money , help with the fundraising and join the Governors.
Idiots, DON’T have children if you’re too thick to realise there is cost involved and do stop moaning!

Private schools charge for trips and extras, also themed days. Extracurricular activities cost money wherever you look.

All the time parents meet these costs, the govt will continue cutting budgets.
Unfortunately, parents will have to start refusing in order to force the govt to fund properly, but parents (understandably) don't want to deny their children what they need to have a positive school experience.
Parents are supposed to be contributing to trips and nice 'extras' - they aren't meant to be funding essentials. That's what tax is for. But the more we suck it up, the more the govt will expect and demand it from us!

And I do think that some schools are very liberal with parents' money. No school in the UK should be asking parents to put in anextra £100 per month. I know teachers are always saying they are badly paid but compared to lots of the parents, they're really not. Sometimes I think they forget this, when planning constant events which require parental top ups.

If enough parents don't pay, the school will not be able to organise trips so all the children suffer.
As above, TGIBU 🙁

When people vote for "small state / low tax" governments they end up having to pay for things themselves (at reatail price and without the buying power a government enjoys).

Apparently it’s the revolutionary
UKs first secure school.

So if it stops the 70% reoffending then it’s money well spent.

If a child is falling alsleep that’s not something she can properly be hauled over the coals for. she has to fight any such attempts. That’s the not way to force a change.

if the books are going to be empty and she needs evidence, she can use her phone/tablet to take photos of the little plastic whiteboards they use like slates now. Show those. If she’s not permitted any form of camera, she makes her own notes of what the kids have had for feedback and uses those. And if the school has an issue, she tells the school to pay for some bloody pencils or to get out of her face. And if they don’t, she takes them to tribunal.

it’s not her responsibility and the only thing that teachers subsidising the system does is hide the issue and make more teachers eventually leave because the entire approach is unsustainable.

and if the school won’t pay, you tell the school that the choice is either no marked books or one of those Amazon lists needs to go out to parents explaining just how bad things are and telling them that donations are needed. That will both result in school supplies and (if the school
is honest and actually run competently) parents whose ire is pointed at the government so that they can agitate for change. Again, hiding the problems does not help.

i don’t subsidise my employer. Don’t subsidise yours.

But that's not what OP is asking for. OP is asking not to have to pay for the school pens.
And that if a trip is organised, they give the total costs required rather than asking for drip feed money, so parents can plan and budget for it.

The school should manage their accounting like any other businesses, and balance their costs according to their income. Not plan for expensive trips they can't afford, and then expect parents to chip in for the shortfall at short notice.

Everyone knows the issue. It’s on the news. People have children who go to these schools where they have cover teacher after cover teacher. Many schools are still closed due to the concrete scandal. Many of them are falling down or lack basics like adequate heating. Children are being taught GCSE Maths by P.E teachers. There is no hiding it. Teachers went on strike last year and we were demonised in the news for being selfish and greedy. Every placard in the marches outlined the desperate situation in schools. Buying some pencils or books is not masking or covering up any issue because everyone knows!

The only people who can change don’t care because their little cherubs will go to Eton or some other private establishment for the elite. They don’t care about the masses and therefore if a teacher has to buy some pencils to get through another stressful day she ISN'T the issue. Everyone knows.

👏👏👏👏👏

Unexpected costs? Higher than expected energy, urgent repairs, recruitment to replace leavers…

I envy you working in a business that can predict its costs so precisely if that’s what you consider normal.

would you rather the school asked parents to pay extra or just cancel? They are giving parents the choice which in my mind is better than stopping altogether.

And kids have been taking their own stationery into school since I was a child so I’m not sure I’d question being asked to provide pens. Teachers provide their own pens, notebooks etc so this is just a natural progression of budget cuts. It’s not right but it’s not shocking. The govt has no money.

Funding. Statistically the UK is in the top 10 of any list in GDP spending for education. So you then have to ask why so many schools, parents and children are struggling? What else is going on.

This was one thing our school did pay for. The kids only had it for the year/term they were on the team, then it went back to school.
This is different to PE kit, which of course the parents should be buying.

No. They don’t.

You do, because you’re paying attention and you have an idea of what should be provided.

I do because I’m a voracious reader of all forms of news.

My husband has no idea because he only pays attention to international news and higher education.

My neighbour thinks it’s all tickety boo. Thinks schools are perfectly capable of paying for everything and just need to better manage their own budgets.

Other people including parents believe the cheery image portrayed by schools in the home school newsletters. They aren’t told there’s no paper. They don’t realise that the school can’t around mass texts about events. They send the kids in and see the smiling photos on the newsletters and beyond that they have not a clue what goes on. They truly don’t know.

And the teachers were, as far as the public is told, on strike about pay. Because that’s the only reason they are allowed to strike. It is no good to rely on hints and inferences that there’s more to it. Parents need to be told, and told bluntly without sugar coating. They might also need to be told that they can write to their MPs and what other things they can do to actually effect change

Because outside of the self selecting group that tracks the news and pays attention about these things - they really don’t know.

Our education authority made cuts of 15% last April, this April a further 10% that's 25% in 12 months. At our school the head has taken early retirement. She's never pushed parents for money. The new head might. To be frank some of the parents are wealthy so could afford it as can many. That would help the ones that really can't spare anything.

A pp mentioned that children in USA the parents pay for stationery. We're moving that way perhaps.

The US is very regional. Where I am the school covers stationery, they also pay for team sports kit and PE kit except for footwear and swimsuit. There’s free breakfast and lunch and the kids in band get loaner instruments if they need them. The school will provide a loaner laptop if you want but you are encourage you to bring your own. School trips that are part of the school day are free with a school pack up provided for lunch. Overnight trips are voluntary (and framed that way) and cost, though there is a fund for students who are hard up.

There’s a hell of a lot of fundraising. But it is voluntary and framed that way and there are no letters home telling parents they have to pay for something for their child to participate in school.

What do you think the parent of an Etonian can do that you can’t?

Pay lots of money the education of their child to be someone else’s problem!