State school charging for basics.

[Purplegarland]

Another email from primary school today saying that they are not unable to subsidise school trips at all and will be fundraising/passing costs onto parents. This means that I am required to give even more money.
This month alone they have asked for almost £100 for various things. Including costs for transport, stationary, being a member of school sport teams (kit, transport, pitch/pool fees, and lunch) some of which happen in school time, and a themed day. Of course, I know that trips are optional but I don't see how I could have my child sitting out of a themed day where visitors come in to give a special talk tied into the curriculum. Add in the various charity days and requests for money for wearing blue or whatever and I am paying an absolute fortune on top of any extra curriculars my DC want to do.
Am I being unreasonable that a state school should not be passing so many costs onto parents? Think £40 for a coach on top of day trip fees.

Yes, I thought that too. It was the same when I was at school and I'm in my seventies, then again with mine. However, I get that £100 in one month is a lot to fork out in one go.

I don't know what to suggest except save the family allowance, if you get it. That would surely help towards extra expense.

My dc’s school has cut right down on trips to one per year to avoid asking parents for money and everyone is complaining about that as well. I don’t think schools can win really.

If you think this is bad wait till secondary school!

14 years of tories!

I think school trips and any extras are fast becoming things many children will never experience. Schools cannot afford to provide these extras. I think the increased cost of pastoral support is part of this. Schools now have whole teams of staff whose role is mental health support, family support and behavioural support. This was not the case when I was at school in the 90s. Schools cannot afford to pay for any extras.

You do realise vast swathes of the world not only manage, but do well (and in a few instances PISA outperform UK) with education sector that is either devoid of or has a minuscule percentage of private schools?

I doubt very much that this role is unaccountable. Central government have insisted on council reorganisation, hopefully they are holding the post holders to account. Ours is ‘one council’ now too.

Council roles ( especially in Childrens Services, I hasten to add) are so accountable, a massive remit for all of the children within an LA - education, safeguarding, social care etc.

I do have an issue with academy trust CEO’s - so much less accountable, for only the education of so few children. Locally an academy CEO earns £250,000 per year for his role with 5 schools. Bet the children in the trust schools don't get many subsidized trips and wider opportunities.

I have friends in a few European countries (Germany, France and Ireland) and all of these do lots of trips. It might just depend on the school/area. Trips can be wonderfully enriching and I think it's a real shame to never leave the classroom.

They do pay for stationery though - but I thought that was fairly normal here too, certainly at secondary school.

Schools should also be a bit smarter. For ex:
Stop dressing up and only ask to wear a specific colour / crazy hair etc that everybody can do for free.
Circulate a sign up list at the beginning of the year to ask for volunteers for supplies - our school did that. Parents are only asked once, people with money will happily put their name for several and/or expensive items, more modest families can choose something cheaper or even not sign up at all.
Team sports kit could be basic and without logo on most items.
School outings don’t always require a coach, could be walking to a library / local monument / parc with interesting wildlife or having experts come into the school instead of taking 30 kinds somewhere.
Etc.

Honestly in comparison to the regular begging from primary, secondary has been fine. They send out a list at the start of the year that kids need to have. Mainly stationary/ uniform. On top I’ve had to pay £25 in a year for a days skiing. Activities are done on site or locally. Home economics provides food. Free 2-1 music lessons. Obviously some stuff more expensive fast growing feet in adult sizes, phone contract etc Much easier to budget for though.

They’re “gimmicks” because OFsted take extra curricular and cultural capital opportunities into consideration. Schools have to offer students more than just the curriculum and can be graded down if they do not.

If you mean the shortfall in the school budget, you can check. Your school should have a link to this…on their website.

You can check any school.

https://schools-financial-benchmarking.service.gov.uk/

You think funding is bad now then how on earth do you think it would cope with no private schools?

Funding places for an additional 600,000 children on the same budget?

Also bear in mind that if no parents paid PS fees they’d also work less and pay less tax. 250k fees needs 500k income so that’s another £1/4m funding gap the tax payer needs to find for each of the 600,000 children.

Other countries celebrate and support those who invest heavily in education. Many give income tax breaks as a sweetener for saving the state money.

Only in the UK do we have such an appalling attitude towards people trying to better themselves. For a political party to put such a policy at the forefront of their manifesto is disgraceful and would not happen in any other country in the world.

Then you need to cut the extra curriculars your child does. A roof over their head and food on their plate is more important than dance or football classes. So also no school sports team if that's working out expensive. If you're low income you should be able to claim free school lunches. Stationary etc., places like Poundland are fine, they don't need branded everything. Unfortunately that's life right now for most of us. Including schools

It depends on your finances, school trips and extras are not an issue for us. I'd rather the school spend their money on salaries and get parents to pay for the extras.

Our school tried charging us 5.00 to go the free museum which the kids walked to 🤣
that I didn’t understand !

There's legislation around what schools can charge for.

Send CYP definitely should not be forced to pay for support they need. If school can't afford it that's what EHCPs are for.

I teach in a school. School budgets are stretched to the absolute maximum these days. There really is no give for extras like trips. Even basics are a struggle at times!

Part of my role is to lead STEM provision. There are so many things I'd like to do but we just don't have the budget. With a very large proportion of our pupils entitled to FSM/living in the most deprived parts of an already deprived town, I know out families wouldn't be able to afford to pay.

I try to buddy up with another secondary in our trust and we put things on ourselves e.g. Science shows for science week. It means as staff we have more to do but we try to offer our children a broad experience.

For other events/trips - I am always on the look out for free offers or places where we can take the tram/it isn't too far so the coach isn't as much.

Obviously, if you cannot afford to pay, then you shouldn't. School will understand. However, remember that they don't ask for money for no reason, it just isn't in the budget 😔

Unless you are on a low income/benefits and qualify for support then haven't you always been expected to pay for these things?

As for those saying 'it's voluntary, don't pay' only so many people can take that option before it becomes inviable.

My LA has so many unused school places, children transferring from private would be a huge benefit in raising their income and in keeping them open.

My LA have closed 16 schools in the last 6 years.

And even years before the days of intense scrutiny., it just makes a challenging job easier if the children have the right kit. It’s very frustrating and ineffective to try and manage with no resources.
I once bought 120 wrongly-printed pencils from the market at a bargain price, and as the stall holder handed me the box, he said ‘You’re a teacher then, pet’
Likewise, hungry children can’t focus well on work. Yes, it needs a government solution, but while we’re waiting…

We are budget setting at the moment. It is so bleak I suggested to the Head we pop up to Mayfair and put the budget on Red.

PP are dead right. We are stuck in a cycle of falling birth rates and underfunding. The Govt will say they have funded recent teacher pay rises (they haven't) and they didn't fund support staff salary increases.

OP I think your school are stuck between the rock and hard place, but compounding that with poor organisation and communication, because you're dead right asking for £40 with two days notice is going to cripple some families.

I work in school in the mornings and do our finance admin in the afternoons (purchasing, payments).

Coach trips alone have skyrocketed post-COVID. A trip that was previously £300 is now £500 or more. That's for relatively short trips, not residentials or anything.

As for the budget for other things (stationary, sports kit) well it's down to your school as to whether or not they fit in their budget. Stationary costs went up 40% last year, and have only just come down a bit for some items.

The LA have just tripled our school dinner charges. We are fighting it whilst simultaneously desperately looking for another company, but we will need to pay their extortionate rates for at least 6 months because we simply can't change that quickly.

The government is still requiring that schools do X number of hours of post-covid catchup but they no longer fund them (they fully funded the first year, half funded the second year, and now they only pay 25%. For something THEY are requiring we do, this is insane)

I know our school is already in a budget deficit for NEXT school year.

Honestly, if spending the money to send your children on trips is a hardship, don't send them. Give feedback to the school as to why, but they aren't charging you because they want to make your life difficult. They're doing it because they're on the brink of financial disaster.

It always baffles me when people have children and are then shocked when they have to pay for their needs.

As an ex-teacher who used to spend over half of their wages on resources, classroom materials, books, stationery, food and drink for hungry children and even things like school shoes, the situation in schools is dire.

There isn't enough money for support staff, let alone things like pencils and glue sticks. If parents won't buy something as simple as stationery, why have a child?

It's stationEry, by the way.

(Yes, I realise circumstances change. Mine did, drastically, but my children are always a priority and if they need essentials, I find a way to get them.)

@StoneAgeRed It has nothing to do with private school charitable status. Your ignorance is showing.

My ds went to a rural state primary where there was an active PTA that worked hard all year raising money to pay for trips and coaches. Parents baked and ran and contributed work-hours or jumble because, living in a rural community, there was a wide range of incomes.

Now ds is at a small independent school (a charitable trust) on a scholarship - I'm a single mum. And the independent school has the same arrangement - the PTA works tirelessly to raise funds. A group of the dads maintain the playing field at the weekends, cut grass, repair goal posts. We're raising funds for repairs and servicing to the two school minibuses.

In both places we all do/did our best to support those who are struggling. I can't pay full fees but I put in hours of PTA work to help.

Expecting things for free is unrealistic.