To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

[Futurascope]

Possibly controversial…,

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-05-14/one-in-three-councils-not-confident-they-can-provide-basic-adult-social-care

“The fears about meeting the legal requirements come despite eight out of 10 councils forecasting having to cut spending on other community services such as parks, libraries and leisure centres to try to protect funding”.

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

P.S. The genie is out the bottle. The money will never be enough. A semi-private system such as France or NZ is only answer

I think some people forget that they will probably be an elderly person one day.

Well, the alternative is worse.

I'm a bit out of touch with UK politics but isn't "right to die" currently up for debate with some support from both main parties and some vocal public support?

Assisted dying, it's all going to be the person's decision, no pressure right? No references to lack of housing stock, no money for childrens' playgrounds, schools, or the cost of cancer drugs could pay for ten thousand midwives or whatever.

How odd then, that a puff piece blaming library closures on old folks should appear.

I think that for every one that just wants to end it there will be many more coerced into it through a combination of social and familial pressure and I don't think that the balance of "goods" will be right (by which I mean freedom vs protection).

It's not 1%. The people you are talking about are the top 0.1%.

I agree. We should stop trying to prolong life as long as possible with endless operations and expensive drugs. For many people those extra years are not really enjoyable. Let us die with dignity.
Covid and the lockdowns highlighted this unfairness where younger people were severely restricted for way too long for the sake of the elderly. It’s like people who won’t get off the fairground ride and give others a turn. I’ve told my kids to just let me go when I’m no longer any use or enjoying life.

YANBU
But this is why assisted dying absolutely shouldn’t be allowed (even though I want it with all my heart). It 100% would be abused.

I agree, OP. When we’re old we should all die like Edward G Robinson in Soylent Green 🤣

What if they aren't 90? You've ignored my responses to you. I'm 33. I rely on others. You said you'd prefer to be dead than do that.

Sorry this is a tangent, but which therapy did you use? PM me if you like to avoid de-railing! Thanks

One problem is that healthy people don't take care of advanced planning for the eventuality that they could lose capacity to make decisions.

How many people here have registered an advance directive with the GP?

I have the paperwork in my bag but still need to fill it out. That's the only way I can ensure that if I lose the ability to make decisions for myself, I won't have any life prolonging treatment. Comfort measures only, no antibiotics or resuscitation, and ventilator only if needed to keep organs viable for donation.

This is so so important for people to understand. Because the super-rich are invisible to us, we forget they are there and the cause of such inequality. We are getting rapidly desperate enough to kill each other (theoretically, on mumsnet) for the crumbs under the banquet table of the super-rich.
I worry that the theoretical and metaphorical will become actual, one day.

I’d love it if you started your own post just sharing these facts with Mumsnet, because I think more people need to read this.

You are showing you don't understand care needs of adults and your lack of understanding and empathy is quite unpalatable.

You don't need to be old or ill in the way you think of an older person being fragile, vulnerable or ill with many conditions to need care or support (such as direct payments given by the local authority.

There is a fast increasing number of under 30s requiring social care for anxiety/depression /bipolar etc whereby they use direct payments (provided by social care from the local authority) to employ a carer of their choice to go out with them to be able to socialise, go to the shops, take part in their local community etc. Would that send you to dignitas?

People with disabilities can claim PIP,. and also care provided by local council to the give support for many disabilities whilst still being able to work full time. Would you go to dignitas because you had one of these disabilities, such as becoming paraplegic, or having lifelong cerebral palsy or developing a progressive neurological condition?

Or would you hop on that plane heading towards dignitas if a bacterial brain infection that caused blindness in your 50s meaning you needed care until you learnt how to do everyday things again, how to be independent again, such as using public transport to be able to go and get your hair cut, learning how to cook and clean safely, how to take care of household tasks and paperwork - all of which help is provided by various skilled sensory support professionals, carers and/or direct payments paid for by the local Council?

Why limit your choices of going to dignitas to when you're old and need some care?

Why not get it over and done with and save everyone else time, money and resources and go in your 30s, 40s or 50s if you are unfortunate enough to suffer any of the above or similar? You wouldn't want to draw your own line so early, so why try to do it for others when you don't understand what all this money is spent on?

Too many people have little understanding of being human.

@Futurascope you’re concerned about your dd’s quality of life regarding housing. Presumably your dd is fit and healthy.
But what if she wasn’t?
What if her whole life was dependent on care?
I expect you’d feel differently about life expectancy then.

It would be a very sad society that would ask that question of a 90 year old. Pitting the young against the old is a really nasty thing to do.

Do you want to apply that logic to everyone or just the elderly?

Absolutely this 💯%

Don't worry, I'm sure there'll be another better virus or two along in a minute to sort us all out properly this time. Not to mention crop failures, a few more wars and that little matter of climate change.

The Earth has gone way beyond its carrying capacity, but one thing's for sure - the rich of the world will continue to be just fine, they always are.

I'd personally hate to live a long time with the health conditions I've got, my quality of life has got progressively worse since my 30s. And I'm nowhere near as disabled as my ex nurse partner who's not even 50 yet, nursed on the frontline all through COVID, and is paying now for their 30 years of service to humanity.

I’d argue the opposite, that the advancement in medicine has given many millions of people a better standard of living. Treatments for ordinary conditions that can be extremely debilitating and diseases like cancer have kept people independent and have been life saving, keeping people working, volunteering after retirement, looking after grandchildren and so on. I would argue vociferously that the squeeze on public finances and the running down of the NHS has put back some of those advances as people are waiting far too long for treatment, some even dying while they are waiting. We do have a higher rate of people unwell but a lot of those people are young, some with physical conditions but plenty with mental health ones. The latter are waiting up to two years for therapy and treatment. It’s political decision to limit funding to the NHS.

I have a condition that years ago would have confined me to bed sucking up care resources. Modern treatments mean I am active in my community and contributing to taxes and society.

My parents did voluntary work well into their later years, into their 80s in the case of my mother. Contributing to their community and supporting other people. I have many friends who are looking after their grandchildren, some almost full time, others filling in after school and the evenings. Not all the elderly are just sitting at home sucking up resources, they are in our communities adding value, experience, support, knowledge. They are the part of the fabric of society and I’m glad medical advancements mean that many of them have a better quality of life in old age.

Op, the reason public services are not being funded is because we have a Tory government. Not because people are living too long.

🙌🏻 yes this

My DC are young still (primary age) and I’ve recently been thinking that it won’t be a bad thing if they don’t have children themselves.

I’d love to be a grandmother, but the world isn’t improving. Scarcity of resources, climate change, an aging population, the era of woke, radicalism, evolution of AI… are scary.

Having children is a vulnerability.

Nailed it. The issue is the fact no one can look after their families without often total dependence on external public services… we need both. And that means more funding for adult care services and it means a more equal division of wealth in society.

My 87 yo nan manages on her own. Even walks to get her own shopping

I suppose these aren’t the people OP is talking about though. OP I get your point- if people having high quality of life and live independently then great but for people who live in institutional care for years with little quality of life (there are lots) and huge cost to the system seems pointless, especially when the care is paid for at a detriment to many others.

Couldn't agree more. Nurse of over 30 years. Dementia costs are set to rise to £50 billion over the next 50 years alone.
My 84 year old FIL with grade 4 lymphoma and a 10cm renal tumour has just been started on chemo. I mean.....

Well you are right but it is a very slippery slope. Didn't the Nazi's kill off old and ill people to pergect the race using economics as an excuse?
If someone has dementia and cannot give consent then do we kill them off?