AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

[Bettercallsaul2024]

I expect I am being unreasonable but since becoming a mum I have gone off men.

I had always adored men but now I see an incompetence I can’t get past. My husband is an ICU consultant - can handle huge pressure and stress but can’t be trusted to pack a fucking bag for a day to the zoo. He can handle the resuscitation of a child but can’t cope when OUR child has a tantrum. (I too am a hospital doctor so feel like I can make the comparison, and I do appreciate the workload of his job). He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!

and it’s not ‘just’ him. I now see it everywhere. All the men in my family, though lovely, have so much less expected of them. Seen as great dads when they take the kids swimming despite the women doing all the parenting the rest of the week plus having a job/career.

sometimes I say to my mum - how are men able to organise complex things like war when they can’t do the sainsburys food shop without ringing their partner at least twice. She reasons that it’s because men usually only have one task to focus on at a time and so can do it well - behind the scenes women are doing EVERYTHING else.

I find myself unattracted to my husband but also all men really. At the park I see dads standing on their phones, getting cross and stressed when their kids are upset after a grazed knee. It’s so ugly to me!

I KNOW I am being unreasonable. But do others feel this way? I know not ALL men. It just so happens it’s ALL men I’ve ever interacted with

YABU: this is a DH thing. Men are just as wonderful as women

YANBU: men wouldn’t last one day as mothers

I agree OP. Your post really resonates with me. My husband can’t even find my son’s coat on our coat rack every single day. He asks me every day where is his coat? On the rack. He says ‘yeah well it was under another coat so it wasn’t visible’ FFS

From the CAROLINE CRIADO PEREZ / INVISIBLE WOMEN newsletter

"First of all, as we already know, women are more likely to do caregiving travel than men. But what I think is an interesting finding and certainly new to me, (although again, hardly surprising given everything else we know about how unpaid care labour is shared between the sexes), is that while the amount of unpaid care travel women do is entirely unrelated to their or their male partner’s employment status (the data only enabled the researchers to account for straight couples) this is not the case for men, who are less likely to do care travel if they work full-time and more likely to do it if their female partner works full-time."

This is really interesting - I have long felt that, at work and at home, women look outwards to make a decision about how much work has to be done and men look inwards. So women think things like "I'm tired - but we have a deadline so I'll crack on" or "I'm tired, but the baby is upset so someone has to soothe her, I guess that's me". But men think things like "Fuck this I've been doing this for 12 hours now I need a break" and they take one.
Women won't drop what needs to be done unless they have passed the responsibility to someone else. Men will drop it when they "need" to and women will pick up, without being asked, because they care about the outcomes (of the project, or the baby, or whatever).

I don't think this is innate. I think that society has repeatedly told us that our own subjective positions for making decisions are not legitimate - so "I'm tired" or "I need more money" are not good reasons for a woman to have a break or a pay rise. But they are treated as good reasons for men to have them.

I hate men. I have a great relationship with my kids because they know I take them seriously and I value that enormously. I would prefer to be in the position that I am in now rather than in the position my ex is in, which is, he is losing them because they know he is selfish and lazy and doesn't listen. But I would far rather have this relationship with them AND not have been utterly thrown under the bus and fleeced and ripped off in my personal and professional life. I could have earned their respect (in theory) AND have had someone else on my side and not spent years absolutely ground down and exhausted.

I work with people a lot younger than me and recently I had a few too many drinks and was a bit indiscreet about a new relationship that everyone else finds very cute. I didn't quite say "yeah, no way is that guy going to be sleep training on the landing at 4am while his wife who has been pregnant and breastfeeding for 2 years finally gets a break - he's going to be whining about how he has work tomorrow and she has 10X the guts and stamina he has". But almost.

I work with people a lot younger than me and recently I had a few too many drinks and was a bit indiscreet about a new relationship that everyone else finds very cute. I didn't quite say "yeah, no way is that guy going to be sleep training on the landing at 4am while his wife who has been pregnant and breastfeeding for 2 years finally gets a break - he's going to be whining about how he has work tomorrow and she has 10X the guts and stamina he has". But almost

This is perfect @YouCantBlameMeForTheDeathOfSumner and I will screenshot this. This is how I feel.

[declaration of interest: I'm a male single parent]

There are definitely way too many men out there who see parenting as primarily women's work. They see their efforts in parenting as "helping" their wife/partner to parent, rather than as being an equal parent. My own father was a text-book example of this. And weaponised incompetence is most definitely a thing.

I've also met a fair number of women who, either implicitly or explicitly, believe much the same. These are the ones who decide that the way that they choose to parent is axiomatically the "right" way, and that any deviation from that is automatically "wrong".

Back when I was still in a relationship with the mother of my kids I'd like to think I pulled my weight but I can't deny I was out of the house for way more hours working/commuting than she was so there were a number of areas where she took the lead. Once I got the kids full-time then there was a lot lot of things I had to work out for myself. But I have to say knowing I could try things out, sometimes make mistakes but then go on to correct those mistakes without having my ear chewed off for doing it "wrong" made things a lot easier.

OR immediately take the kids to their mothers and set up camp there for the day so they don’t have to really parent. It’s rather pathetic.

I think some women are incompetent dicks just like men are too! I’ve got a lovely DH who is a good all rounder so I’m clearly lucky!

Well said OP.

You are not unreasonable.

The mental load woman have is huge. I am so sick and tired of feeling like a non paid live-in maid, everyone turns to me to ask where things are , even if they are in front of them.

I cannot wait for everyone to move out and leave me to care only for myself 🤣no more trying to figure out what to eat. If I fancy cooking I will cook otherwise live on salad 🥗

This is SO COMMON. Totally pathetic.

We get our behaviour policed by the public in a way they never do though. Men don't get unsolicited comments telling them what they're doing wrong

I don't know OP. I think men at work are not that much more different, especially in office jobs. I know you are doctors so I'm actually baffled because it must mean both male and female doctors need to work to the same high standard.

In office jobs though, even big office jobs, I see women being a lot more thorough in their work, more reliable and overall less bullshitting and obviously it gets them absolutely nothing because some man will come along and spread his wisdom and he's automatically the greatest employee. Men are very much a version of their persona at home as they are at work and actually get through work because higher up are more men, especially white men, who are the same and that's all they know.

I don't even have kids, but my own mother was misogynistic towards her daughter Vs her son and then I saw the same at work and don't really believe there are men that are decent. I know that's probably not true but why risk it.

I chose badly and it has ruined my 20s, 30s and 40s and I have not fixed it.

MIL is a martyr to domestic servitude, FIL strongly backs divisive sex roles. My H disguised this before marriage, what a modern man he seemed in the 90s.
He wouldn't pack a bag but then he honestly thought it was more efficient to wing it, either poncing off better prepared women if the emergency arose or like some SAS soldier fashioning a wipe from a baby sock.
It was and is deeply unattractive.

The menopause has done it for me. I have run out of hormones and fucks. I will never live with another man.

I also work in engineering and witness great problem solving men deliberately flunk out of home life. It's pathetic.

We are living at my MIL - whilst I was rushing out in a school morning that I do every morning (and then go to work 3 days a week) she asks me to water plants whilst she is away for 2 weeks. I said I would tell her son to remember. He literally doesn’t remember anything to do with the children/house. He only thinks of work/footy/running, but he is the ‘prodigal son’ as far as she’s concerned! I make a decision not to remind him after messaging him the first time, but she texts him asking him to water plants. He then asks me do you think she means outside or inside ones. I don’t answer so he’s stressed about that. She’s back tomorrow and one of the plants is dead because he didn’t see them and I didn’t tell him that there are plants at the front of the house that he walks past every single day!

I agree but there's a lot less to do prior to having kids and you don't rely on your partner so much to get any time to yourself so it's much less obvious.

Having children has been game changing for me regarding my outlook on men. Nothing before has made me rise to the Feminist cause more than this, and I feel enraged by the inequality. I felt like, and was treated, as a simple maid servant by my exh.

I simply cannot imagine being with another man again unless they were a glowing example hugely demanding and demonstrative of equality between the sexes. I suspect such an example doesn’t exist and I really need a unicorn.

I could be attracted to a woman - I have in the past. But I am so worn down from the lone raising of children, I have no time for myself, let alone having energy for an intimate partner - even were she female.

I understand your sentiments very clearly OP. I suspect this is why so many women are coming out as gay in their 40s and 50s. Their is something deeply deeply unattractive as a deliberately and manipulatively helpless male.

He can’t or he won’t ? Because there is a huge difference. If you were to die tomorrow he would probably do it ? Or at least I like to think so . My hubby is the same , although he can cope with the kids , albeit a lot more stressed than I would be .
I would like to think he would be ok if needed

😂😂😂

I have often thought this.

I’ve just got home after a 13 hour day, doing a difficult job that gives us financial stability. He hasn’t been at work, spent at least two hours doing his hobby, zero housework and kids aren’t in bed because he’s busy chatting on the phone to a mate. I am literally wondering what is the point of him. It’s so unattractive this level of incompetence.

Exactly this.

In office jobs though, even big office jobs, I see women being a lot more thorough in their work, more reliable and overall less bullshitting and obviously it gets them absolutely nothing because some man will come along and spread his wisdom and he's automatically the greatest employee. Men are very much a version of their persona at home as they are at work and actually get through work because higher up are more men, especially white men, who are the same and that's all they know.
I was thinking this too. A lot of men I know at work are actually kind of crap at their jobs, but they pontificate confidently and pat each other on the back and think they are doing marvellously. I see a lot of senior men heavily propped up by a team of lower- down, highly competent and conscientious women.
In fact I have worked in several sectors and it’s the same all over.
Its why I always prefer having a male boss- they don’t really pay much attention to what I am doing and as long as I am covering the big ticket stuff, I could be fucking up left right and centre and they wouldn’t cop on. Female bosses are always more on top of their remit.
There is one exception where I work, and it’s a male colleague I really rate as he is quietly very competent, and ( possibly not huge coincidence) seems to be quite an involved dad too, based on the sort of things he mentions regarding his young children.

I’ve started letting DH fail too. He complained about me ‘nagging’* one too many times. So now I don’t.

• Nagging. AKA reminding him to do the thing he said he would.

Oh God me too. I won't be getting empty next syndrome!!
My Dh was doing a job in the garden last week and kept saying can you get me this, can you get me that. I said sure and when l am cooking dinner l will call you in to get me a saucepan, a wooden spoon etc. Looked at me like l was mad but fucks sake get stuff yourself. But l mean obviously he works 1 more day a week than mr so is FAR more important!

This post is about the Men

You can always start your own post about the Females.

Whoever wrote about nagging that's actually what I need to do with my boss, who seems nice but is a complete mess, unable to plan any work, doesn't do what he says he would and I need to nag him about things he's missed. He's incapable of letting his team know when he takes a day off, let's you know late in the day so the work he was supposed to be doing then needs someone else doing it who ends up staying late because it got communicated late.

So he isn't nice at all. He's a total mess but I do catch him talking to others about my area of expertise he knows not much about, but it looks good because my little product has done extremely well so why not take some of the glory. 9/10 women just aren't like that. I'm totally puzzled as to why women are told to be more like men at work, constantly blowing your own trumpet with very little to show, demanding this and that, all in the name of closing the gender pay gap. Because that's women's fault. Right. I'm totally sick of it.

I completely agree. My inner feminist emerged once I'd had the DC and I changed forever. I'm headed for a divorce by the end of the year. I can only hope I teach my own sons to be better men. Amen.

Gosh what sad misogynistic tripe. It’s pure sexism passed down from generation to generation.

My dad was the main caregiver and my mum was the career parent, luckily I don’t have my mum in my ear saying how useless men are. Luckily my own mum told me from a young age not to waste my life picking up men’s dirty laundry or cooking and tidying for them. Men are totally capable of being equal and capable. My own dad and my own DH are excellent parents and far from useless.

Yes. This is it.

My DH markets himself as a feminist ally. (I struggle not to snort with laughter at this). He sees himself as one of the good guys.

Why? Because he would never cheat on me. He doesn’t sit around scratching his crotch, drinking beer and watching the footie. And to be fair, he’s always ‘helped’ and he does his fair share of cooking and putting washing on. He’s a pretty engaged dad but can’t cope with the emotional Labour of it so gets grumpy and cross easily.

But for years he didn’t clean. He would ask what I needed ‘help’ with. I fought this and eventually he saw that as he also uses the toilet, therefore he should take turns cleaning said toilet etc.

Then came the ‘I am doing this “for you” because it’s important to you’. Hmm. Ok. So benefit of the doubt, I said ok, well if I have higher standards than you let’s compare and meet in the middle. And lo, he also agrees the toilet should be cleaned at least once a week.

So now we have established that a penis doesn’t preclude you from doing housework, it’s just the shit that needs doing and we have mutually agreed minimum standards. So it’s not ‘for me’.

But still I would end up doing the bulk of it. He never finishes a job and leaves things unfinished. Just doesn’t prioritise it and doesn’t put his mind to it.

So we got an app to put the agreed standards in. Still things were always chaotic and messy when I finished work, despite him being at home.

A change in job meant longer hours for me but more money. I’m the main earner. I said I could only do it if he took over the bulk of the domestic stuff including the mental load.

He does more now but we have ended up getting a cleaner because he JUST DOESN’T WANT TO DO IT! But he won’t admit that.

Within weeks of him doing the bulk of it he was complaining that we were then messing it up (years I had that and was told I was being neurotic and critical if I complained) and suddenly we are allowed a tumble dryer, dishwasher and a cleaner. All denied to me when I was doing the bulk of it - too expensive. No room.

He just doesn’t want to do it. Well, guess what!! No one does!!

I needed that rant.