Sorry, not sorry, but wfh really is much easier

[Jeannie88]

I know it's become the norm, especially post covid, but do those who wfh realise how much easier their lives are?

Sorry, but I have found it a bit pathetic and embarrassing that there has been a big defiance of 'going into office' once a fortnight to be such an horrific ordeal?

Don't you all realise how fortunate you are? No commute, time at home to do things those of us have to do after a day of being on our feet, all frontline and retail etc then look after our children?

Sp my point from.personal experience. We are a group of 6 friends (f) and go out regularly together. When we have been to midweek gigs, comedy nights, meal, the 4 who wfh joke how they can roll out of bed and be online within minutes to show present, then have breakfast and just work at their own pace and even during teams meeting they can sit back and contribute what they have to.

Then, the 2 of us who have to get up at 6am, dress for work, ready to drive so sensible of alcohol intake the night before and buy ourselves soft drinks in rounds or even drive and give lifts. Then do a full intensive day with full on human interaction and check e mails on the evening when we get the time to do so.

Of course childcare issues come into this. We who don't wfh have to take our DC to breakfast club or childminder then go on to work, the 3 of the 4 who have DC drop them off at school and rush back having been seen to log on early but not really working as getting them ready.

Ok so my observation and opinions based on this. I guess all the moaning on MN about having to go into the office (which really isn't so hard is it?) had incited me to raise this point.

Oh and I do have DP who wfh and he totally agrees with me. He's hardworking and doesn't do the slob thing, but agrees, in his own words. 'It's a piece of piss compared to going to the office and even that was so easy compared to your job'.

So please those who have the privilege of wfh stop moaning! Honestly, how would the world work if everyone wfh? It wouldn't.

The interesting thing here is that you still haven't given any details.

You said 'Actually, the mental health of working age people has massively declined which researchers believe is due to WFH'. We still haven't been told who those researchers even are, much less what they base their views on. Come on, what's stopping you?

Your descent into hyberbole isn't going to prove your claims, either. Remote working is clearly appalling for some people, and if you look back at my posts on this thread you'll see I've pointed out that generalising about this issue is stupid.

However, what you've said is something much more specific than that. You've said that researchers think the increase in MH problems in working age people, in a time of great upheaval and issues, is down to an increase in remote working specifically.

Prove it.

If you think we’re all having such a great time (generally we are) OP why not find a job where you can wfh too?

Showing would require you to do more than make claims. You've not backed anything up yet. Which gives you a credibility problem, because this topic attracts a looooot of bullshitting.

Goodness me, what did we do before we had offices to make sure we were sitting properly at a desk, as humans have evolved to do from the stone age. I suppose students between the ages of 18 and 22 must have the most need for NHS care due to joint problems, because they often work wherever they are most comfortable and are not forced to sit in one position all day at a desk.

Look, I have to go back to my own job now but you carry lot carry on with your determination that WFH can never be anything other than great and trying to destroy others argument by claiming they said things they never, rather than having any curiosity about anything that doesn't fit your narrative, if that is what makes you happy. You do you.

Where have I said any of that?

If you are going to say "research says" then back it up with the stats and figures and research. Provide the peer reviewed sources.

Otherwise its just waffle. Don't expect people to just take your word for it because you said so.

I am curious. That's why I want to see the study. That's why other people are asking for the studies. That's what curiosity is..

I work fully from home, it's perfect for me. I do school drop off, log on. Work 9-11.30, very quick movement break to hang the washing up, back to work 11.40-2.30, school run. I have kids downstairs until 7.30. Then I do the rest or my hours either during the evening or during the early hours 6-8am. Quite often I will do 6-7am, then 8-9pm

I have full flexibility over how my hours look. My boss knows I work my butt off to go above and beyond. It works well for me.

We only work from home as I work for a local authority who won't fund an office for my team.

As someone who worked fully in an office pre covid, to fully at home post and since, I don't now how I did it before. My life was a chaotic mess and now I feel I have some control back, especially with having young children. I absolutely appreciate it and couldn't go back to fully in office work. That being said, if my work mandated me be in the office once a week I would be fine with that too. I expect an issue people may have with this is if they live far from their main office so have a crazy commute. Also depends on the requirement to go in and what it's for. If you are going to sit there on your own just to fulfil your requirement then that's frustrating. Collab work is different.

all the school runs, dog walks, washing, food decision making and cooking

@Curlewwoohoo if you're doing all this when you're supposed to be working, that's not cool

If you're doing all this plus your job, then I sympathise

OP I think what your friends do and joke about is not what majority do with wfh.

It's also swings and roundabouts to what is better/easier. I developed long covid and POTS in 2021. I'm one of the lucky few with these conditions who hasn't had to give up work but I need major adaptations. I do still go into my office but I'm not joking when I say it makes me ill - my fatigue hits harder, I do less hours and the next few days due to post exertion malaise (PEM) I'm often recovering for a few days whilst trying to work.

I'm not alone in getting less work done in the office. But wfh it can be hard to switch off have that decompression time and not work additional hours regularly.

My bills are also a lot higher in Winter as simply I need the heating on for more of the day. Flip side in the summer I get washing hung out in my lunch break. It can be very difficult however from home to get a proper lunch break. It can also be quite isolating and lonely.

Of course there will be some people who take the biscuit with wfh but there is with people in an office as well so 30 min coffee chat etc.

I like wfh and don't take the piss. I've worked in loads of offices and there are always people wasting loads of time chatting etc.
It's taken years of study to get the point where I can wfh, and i wouldn't have liked it earlier in my working life anyway.
Can you think of a direction you could take towards a wfh role OP?

A large scale international research project has shown that the levels of mental health in the UK are much lower than most other western countries. It does not put this down to wfh, but poverty and social media.

I wfh. I would complain if my employer arbitrarily decided I should be in the office x number of days. I would just get another job, and there are lots of vacancies in my field.

I always feel like an outlier on these threads. I hate WFH - the lack of separation of work and home, the social isolation and more. I even enjoy my commute! Public radio and a coffee on the way in, schlocky podcast on the way home 😄 I really value that transition time.

On a more serious note, though, I'm glad that COVID hit when I was a 40+ year old mid-career professional. I think WFH is crippling the professional development of lots of early career people. Being physically present to get yourself known and to build relationships with more senior colleagues is critical to success in my view. So many lost opportunities to get involved with projects that you hear about "in passing" or to be introduced to someone in the office cafeteria who does work you might be interested in exploring, etc.

On a more societal level, I can't help but think that the massive rise in mental illness, particularly among the young, was in part caused by those extended periods of isolation. And as so many of the WFH virtues that people extol seem to boil down to "I don't have to deal with/get distracted by/interact with people". Human beings aren't supposed to be islands! We are supposed to converse/cooperate/coexist with others - that's what I enjoy about work! The opportunity to connect with people, even just a passing hello to the barista.

I don't envy WFHers at all...

@candyisdandybutliquorisquicker I have a very busy social life. The only time I socialised with colleagues was in my early twenties. Ever since then everyone has children and wants to rush back home. I can do every day small talk with colleagues, but I do not miss it. I think people without many friends or fanily suffer from wfh.

And as so many of the WFH virtues that people extol seem to boil down to "I don't have to deal with/get distracted by/interact with people". Human beings aren't supposed to be islands! We are supposed to converse/cooperate/coexist with others - that's what I enjoy about work!

I agree. And how many of these colleagues 'bothering' them were the young people you mention, who might benefit from casual interaction with more experienced colleagues?

I think the other important point is that most employers have made office life less friendly and pleasant over the years. Too many offices are open plan hot desking. Where I used to work we had small offices for each team, with coffee making facilities close by and it was fine. Now everyone is in a cavernous modern open plan office with no opening windows and hot desking so you don't even sit next to your team. I would hate working there and ex colleagues say they sometimes end up working in the cafe as they can't find a desk - they can not wfh more than 2 days a week.

Humans have vastly different interaction needs
Sone are particularly useless at casual interactions that would benefit anyone
Humans do vastly different types of work

Diversity means more than just sex or race

Musculoskeletal maybe. Because you're right, no-one can enforce how someone sits at home.

MH has other factors. COL being one of them. The increases we've seen in the last 4 years definitely were not happening pre-covid for this group of people. The fact that after lockdown lifted, so many people started coming down with all number of viruses needs to be factored in. The fact that we cannot get contact with our GPs to help with MH issues that may be arising from these and WFH elements (for those that don't love it) doesn't pre-date lockdown.

I could go on. There's been a lot of upheaval in 4 years.

I know a lot of people who were struggling with MH before the 'boom' of people who WFH. Loads of those people (myself included) have felt better mentally since they have been able to balance their lives better with WFH.

I've read through a lot of these comments and no-one has cited any studies. It's just "researchers think...". What researchers? Where are the studies to back these claims up?

Yep! Which brings us back to the key point- generalising is pointless.

Young workers, for example, aren't a monolith. Even if you personally benefitted from being physically in a workplace, plenty of others didn't or never got the chance. Being young doesn't mean you're neurotypical, or that you can get to the job in the first place.

And socialising with people who work for the same organisation is not the same thing as socialising per se. I'm sure there are people who rely on work for socialisation who struggle without that and who can't change to an in person job for whatever reason. There are also some of us who are able to use the commuting time to have more interactions, and not with people who have essentially been forced on us because we happen to work in the same place either.

But do we have to co-exist with people we don't necessarily get on with? Do we have to deal with office politics? Or, can we co-exist with our chosen people, and interact with necessary people at work instead?

Agree with this 100%

There were times in my career that I was lucky enough to have my own office, or share with just one or two people. I loved it.

Then they came in with sledgehammers and made everything open plan. I'm not NT so I especially struggled with the noise, the lack of a "base", some colleagues annoying habits! etc.

Psychologically I don't do well in these big characterless spaces. I'm not good at plonking myself down just anywhere and diving into work. I'm less able to focus on work as I'm not comfortable and I'm being distracted by everything going on. But employers didn't give a shit how it made people feel.

Yep. I can see how some people may struggle with WFH being isolating and bad for their MH. But the flip side of it is that some people now don't have to struggle with being "peopled out" or being drained from commuting, or dealing with seeing people do sod all while they do everything.

I'd like to see what research was done. I'm intrigued.

If you don't want to coexist with people you don't get on with, then life must be difficult for you unless you live as a hermit. Why work in a job with colleagues, if you expect only to have to 'coexist' with those you happen to like?

I agree, and btw this is a very privilege point of view as well the idea we should all just be ok with being in the office with people we clash with.

As a POC who has encountered many aggressions (I don’t call them micro) it’s such a relief to be WFH.

A lot of POC are reporting similar and saying things like being told they don’t fit into the “work culture” etc or having their personality micromanaged eg. Being vaguely told “something” about them is “intimidating” or not friendly enough etc, has all stopped or at least reduced now.

Similar thing with ND people who are often masking.

I don't expect it. But I have the choice to WFH or go to the office everyday. In the office, there's a variety of people. My team are nice (and if they weren't I would re-evaluate if I stayed there) but there is, as there is everywhere, people who are not nice. I have no need to interact with them day to day for my role. Occasionally, yes. But as it's not necessary for me to spend my time with them, why should I force myself to? I have the option not to.

I wouldn't choose to spend time with them outside of work, and I don't have to choose to go into the office and sit with them now. The point I was responding to is that humans are social animals and designed to co-exist. But why can't we choose who we co-exist with, especially when you have the option to limit interaction with some people now?

I'm sorry that's been your experience. I know we all had to deal with it previous to most "office" roles becoming WFH for a period. But it doesn't mean we have to go back to it.