Sorry, not sorry, but wfh really is much easier

[Jeannie88]

I know it's become the norm, especially post covid, but do those who wfh realise how much easier their lives are?

Sorry, but I have found it a bit pathetic and embarrassing that there has been a big defiance of 'going into office' once a fortnight to be such an horrific ordeal?

Don't you all realise how fortunate you are? No commute, time at home to do things those of us have to do after a day of being on our feet, all frontline and retail etc then look after our children?

Sp my point from.personal experience. We are a group of 6 friends (f) and go out regularly together. When we have been to midweek gigs, comedy nights, meal, the 4 who wfh joke how they can roll out of bed and be online within minutes to show present, then have breakfast and just work at their own pace and even during teams meeting they can sit back and contribute what they have to.

Then, the 2 of us who have to get up at 6am, dress for work, ready to drive so sensible of alcohol intake the night before and buy ourselves soft drinks in rounds or even drive and give lifts. Then do a full intensive day with full on human interaction and check e mails on the evening when we get the time to do so.

Of course childcare issues come into this. We who don't wfh have to take our DC to breakfast club or childminder then go on to work, the 3 of the 4 who have DC drop them off at school and rush back having been seen to log on early but not really working as getting them ready.

Ok so my observation and opinions based on this. I guess all the moaning on MN about having to go into the office (which really isn't so hard is it?) had incited me to raise this point.

Oh and I do have DP who wfh and he totally agrees with me. He's hardworking and doesn't do the slob thing, but agrees, in his own words. 'It's a piece of piss compared to going to the office and even that was so easy compared to your job'.

So please those who have the privilege of wfh stop moaning! Honestly, how would the world work if everyone wfh? It wouldn't.

@YaMuvva

here in Yorkshire I think the council has a hard on for putting Road works in the most inconvenient places then sending no workers to work there for weeks

Yep same here too. (Misses point of thread entirely)

WFH is great for those of us who have to commute in as it keeps the roads quieter. Don't get me wrong, the roads are still busy at key times but imagine how much worse it would be if every WFH employee suddenly had to go back in full time...no thanks.

I hear some people get paid differently for different types of work too. Also the people who cut the grass and empty the bins have to be outside in all weathers whereas workshy scroungers like me are allowed indoors. The outrage.

If I didn't do any work on my WFH days it would be noticed pretty quickly because if I don't do it it doesn't get done. I'm sorry you don't like your job but don't take it out on other workers, take it up with your employer or vote with your feet.

I love working from home (3 days a week) and know how lucky I am - although pre covid I already did 2 days WFH.

I do have a moan sometimes about going to the office, mostly in my own head, as there is usually very little reason for being there. It makes mornings stressful as we have to be out of the house earlier, I'm anxious about getting out on time and hoping there is no train delays. It makes my day 3-4 hours longer. And why? Not because there's any work I specifically need to do in the office, but because my employer has set a rule that says everyone needs to be in 2 days. I wouldn't mind if meetings were in person, but it's mostly still impossible to get a meeting room and at least half the people are WFH when I'm in so meetings are still on teams, and then when I'm not in a meeting I can hear one sided conversations from those around me.

Despite this, I'm actually still glad I have to go in (just not on the day) as I'd go a little stir crazy at home every day. And I do less work in the office as everyone chats (management included).

It largely depends on the job. Mine is a little dull, and I certainly don't love it. But I tolerate that because of the work life balance. You've made a different decision.

I work hybrid and it’s the best of both worlds.
My line manager actively encourages it although she goes in more than me now. One of our colleagues works 99% from home.
I’d miss the social interaction if I never went in, but I also like flexibility of wfh. Not sure I ever want to go back in office full time.

Yes, which 'researchers' are these and what controls have they put into place for all the other issues we've faced since 2020? There are so many factors that are relevant here!

I'm a sole employee for a charity. WFH is an immense privilege and I work harder as a result. I do have less productive and more productive days though. It all balances out.

However the fact I WFH saves my charity in the region of £350-£500 pcm on the desk space alone - never mind any other costs.

No office or desk to hire. No printing costs. No utility bills. No internet bill. No phone bill. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I even bought my own laptop. No heating bill. No coffee/tea/milk bill. No cleaning or maintenance for them. No storage costs (I store resources in my attic).

So yes I recognise I have it easy. Yes I recognise it's a privilege - my Trustees are grateful I'm happy to WFH as it does save them so much money.

Not moaning about it at all, it's brilliant and I value it hugely.

That said, I worked from home regularly pre-Covid and it was the main reason I stayed at the same company despite better monetary offers elsewhere as it was such a big perk for me, so I have purposely set up my life to allow it.

I've also never wanted a job where I have to talk to other people all day... a nice quiet office and emails is much more my scene.

Most of those things you list predate lockdown and wfh so clearly are not the reason.

MH and musculo-skeletal problems have increased since WFH which researchers believe is due to WFH. ( the physical health issues due to working at desks at home not properly set up to sit at for long periods).

Musculo-skeletal is not mental health.

And again, please tell us what controls these researchers have put into place to exclude all the other factors and upheaval that have gone on since 2020. They'd have to be very robust ones!

No one is holding you hostage at your job, if you don't like it then go and do something else.

WFH is equivalent to earning £10k more (if not more) to a lot of people once you factor in your time, cost of getting to work, other extra costs e.g. clothes you wouldn't normally wear and washing them, etc.

Having said that, some people are much better at WFH than others. Some are just terrible, they're out with their partner in the sunshine instead of anywhere near work. Ended up running in to one of them once, and no it wasn't a lunch break - a day trip to a tourist attraction. Some I could happily leave to get on with things for a year and they'd be fine.

Well a recent increase in two health conditions after a massive social shift is quite likely due to that massive social shift.

Its daft to ask what 'controls' were put in place when this was a natural experiment and not a designed one.
And I said, the researchers think, not know, its extremely common for researchers, particularly of social phenomena, to offer possible explanations for observed phenomena.

Of course I do that’s why I do it!

I'm sorry but this is a really daft reply. See above for my response to the controls.

And yes, I know MH is not a musculo-skeletal problem 🙄 I was talking about two striking changes to the health of younger working age people since the move to WFH.

'Quite likely'. That's a very big claim. It requires proof. Where's yours?

Because all you've done so far is make assertions. If you're saying there are researchers who think this, and who've persuaded you that they're right, then it should be easy for you to tell us who they are and how they controlled for all the other factors.

Unless, of course, you didn't actually pay any attention to how they dealt with all the other confounding factors...

It was telling that you jumped straight to something else as soon as you were asked to back up your claims!

Which, incidentally, we're still waiting for you to do.

The push to hybrid has locked me out of jobs that I know I could do fully remotely, but can't, because I don't live in London or anywhere commutable.

I wfh 3 times a week and agree with you. I do think it's going to be a massive issue in the future for recruitment of teachers, hospital staff etc.

For those with children, wfh is a blessing. I don't know how people with young children coped going into the office 5 days a week pre Covid.

I'm not suprised mental health has declined in the UK since the pandemic

Choosing between heating and eating
Massive mortgage cost rises
House prices unattainable for many people trying to get on the ladder
Massive cost of living increases

We are all working for less and less. Why wouldn't some people have an impact on their mental health due to this?

For example
The ONS has monitored relationships between the prevalence of depression and the rising cost of living. Its data shows that rates of depression were higher among those who found it hard to afford housing costs or energy bills, and higher among renters than homeowners.

Meanwhile services to support mental health have longer and longer waiting times due to a lack of funding. Also peoples mental health can be impacted by long wait times for physical health problems

Additionally the biggest increase in mental health issues has been in the school age children, which has nothing to do with WFH

Unless the report has adjusted for brexit, the pandemic, the cost of living crisis, increasing people in poverty, the issues with the property market etc it's just too easy to label it "wfh"

Nice and convenient for the government too...

Who were the researchers and who sponsored the research?

My goodness, you do make me laugh.

Your strange positions relies on two things.

Firstly that I said a large scale systematic review of high quality RCTs has been conducted and have proved causation. I never said that. I said researchers had observed a new phenomena amongst and population and thought the cause was...

Secondly that researchers never say anything unless they have strictly controlled for confounding variables in designed experiments. And this is also not true. Researchers learnt a lot about child development from observations of children in the Romanian orphanages, for example,- this formed a natural experiment.

I think the interesting thing here though is why you are so furiously angry at any suggestion that WFH is anything but wonderful for all.

Same in office, some people have moved far out of London and so resent paying upwards of £50 to commute in so will come up with an excuse every week why they can't come in on our 'team office days'

No I was supporting it by showing there are two new phenomena which are reasonable related to changes in working patterns.

All this. Why is Op so focused on peoples “performance” and judging if they’re the “good” sort of WFH people.

Sure because younger age working people haven't been impacted by a pandemic affecting their university education or first years of work, rising house prices, astronomical rent increases, the impacts of social media

The younger age work force who have mental health problems are statistically more likely to be in a lower paid job meaning they have been disproportionately affected by the cost of living crisis

Additionally a third of them are out of work because of their mental health problems. So it's a bit of a stretch to link it to wfh when they are not even working

Because those factors affect everyone and not just working people.

Look, I have to go back to my own job now but you carry lot carry on with your determination that WFH can never be anything other than great and trying to destroy others argument by claiming they said things they never, rather than having any curiosity about anything that doesn't fit your narrative, if that is what makes you happy. You do you.