Refusing to sign passport

[Scoobie2911]

AIBU?
Bit of background: I met my best friend 8 years ago when we both started a new job together. My friend is from South Africa, her hubbie was born in UK but his family moved out to SA when he was a child. My friend and hubbie moved to UK about 10 years ago. We no longer work together and live in different towns but speak every day via Whatsapp. We are so alike and get on so well, we think the same way, have similar life experiences and we tell each other just about everything, she is the sister I never had.
She recently gained her UK citizenship, I supported her in this, gave her a character reference as I have for jobs etc. Now she is applying for a UK passport and sent her application to me to be a counter signatory BUT I had to refuse as I am not on the approved occupation list. My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check anyway but I said this would be fraud and I simply cannot do this. She has asked me to please post everything back to her and hasn't spoken to me since. Am I being unreasonable in refusing to commit fraud and signing her passport application?

The list isn't exhaustive. Are you a person of good standing in your community?

What does that mean in practice, though?

Nope, you’re absolutely not unreasonable - you’re a 100% correct. They DO sometimes check, and whether they do or not, it’s still wrong to commit fraud. You have good ethics, she doesn’t.

You dont need to be on the list as its just a guide. You can be 'of good standing in the community' which covers a lot of bases.

I don't know why you didn't just try signing it. You wouldn't be commiting fraud if you tell the truth about your employment

PP is right - it’s an approved profession, or someone of good standing. Assuming you don’t have a criminal record or something you should be fine.

My neighbour is a retired policeman and has signed ours in the past. He said he HAS had his followed up once. So it would be a bad idea to commit fraud.

What sort of job do you do?
You dont have to be on the list.
You would likely have been OK to sign it

Yes, they do check at random. I've had phone calls asking me to confirm my name, occupation, and how I know the person whose application I've signed.

You can't sign it. They do spot check these things.

I have signed a quite a few passports and I have been contacted by the passport agency twice for further information about the people I was signing for. These were phone calls to check that I really did know them well.
On top of this I had to provide further proof of my employment status.
No way would I sign if it wasn’t truthful and how dare she ask you.

Why can't she sign it?
If she has a stable job and a passport then who are we to say she can't sign it?
All she has to do is not lie as that is the illegal bit

For adult passports usually the list is an example. It’s not exclusive- that just seems to be for children’s passports.
I signed one using a very ordinary job and being a volunteer for a charity, as ‘someone of good standing.’
You don’t need to lie. Just write down who you are.

This.

Assuming you don't have a criminal record you are an upstanding member of the community. Sign it.

So what if they check? You are not doing anything wrong.

I would have just signed it. If any issues, they would have come to your friend, not you.

You should have just signed it, or called the helpline if you were unsure if you were eligible, they're dead helpful.

As long as you didn't lie about who you are or your profession you wouldn't be committing fraud - they'd decide if you're eligible or not and if not they'd just ask your friend to find someone else.

Update to answer questions.
I work in admin for the NHS.
I have no professional qualifications as such and have never been in trouble with the police so does that make me 'a person of good standing within my community'?

You can absolutely sign it. Of course you can. You have a job in the NHS. It wouldn’t be fraud anyway even if you didn’t have such a job.

Yes you probably would have been perfectly fine to sign it as you don't need to be on the list and you work for the nhs.

Things used to be a lot tighter, so if you have been signing passport applications for neighbours and friends for years then you may not have realised the changes. I hadn't until recently. My qualification still holds regardless of the job I do. But my poor neighbours I insist everytime on reading the guidance notes and the full form!! I take it seriously as have you!

If you look on the gov website it gives you examples of acceptable occupations. I think you're right not to sign. The examples it gives are all qualified professions.

www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories

They do check - this happens in my last passport application where my friend was telephoned by the passport office. You are well within your rights to refuse

Working for the NHS is fine.

Put your actual occupation on the form. If they don't like it they won't accept it and she'll find someone else.

It's not a list of professions, it's a list of examples. They don't list every single possible profession you can have.

Definitely don't lie because that would be stupid but I'd say you can sign it.

@TiptoeThroughTheToadstools it says:

Your countersignatory must either:

• work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
• be ‘a person of good standing in their community’

Interestingly, if you have been in a profession but are currently a sham, you can't sign passports! But you can if you retire.... 🤷

The fraud comments refer to this part of the post:-
“My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check”