Refusing to sign passport

[Scoobie2911]

AIBU?
Bit of background: I met my best friend 8 years ago when we both started a new job together. My friend is from South Africa, her hubbie was born in UK but his family moved out to SA when he was a child. My friend and hubbie moved to UK about 10 years ago. We no longer work together and live in different towns but speak every day via Whatsapp. We are so alike and get on so well, we think the same way, have similar life experiences and we tell each other just about everything, she is the sister I never had.
She recently gained her UK citizenship, I supported her in this, gave her a character reference as I have for jobs etc. Now she is applying for a UK passport and sent her application to me to be a counter signatory BUT I had to refuse as I am not on the approved occupation list. My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check anyway but I said this would be fraud and I simply cannot do this. She has asked me to please post everything back to her and hasn't spoken to me since. Am I being unreasonable in refusing to commit fraud and signing her passport application?

As someone who has struggled to find counter-signatories in the past, I feel your friend’s pain and understand her frustration with you.

For those saying the list is just a guide, it's different (much stricter) if it's the first passport of somebody who has just gained citizenship, which it sounds like the position your friend is in. You were right not to sign.

So. What if they check? She wouldn’t be lying if she put her nhs occupation

The only way it would be fraud is if you say you have a profession on the list which you don't.

My friend is a carer and signed my husbands application. Was approved no problem 12 years ago and was his first passport.

They do check. I sign passports for friends/their children and I'd say 1 in 4 are checked.

The list of suggested occupations is people who traceable and registered elsewhere, to allow for cross checking. Chartered professionals is one category - not because accountants and surveyors etc are more trustworthy than other people, but because they will be registered with their professional body. Local government officers is another, because again, public sector workers are straightforward to cross check. Ditto people who volunteer for charities as mentioned.

@Op, if you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't.

If you're not convinced, phone the passport office or send them an email.

That way you will have an official answer.

I had a friend sign it who owned her own business and it was refused and I had to go to London and get someone else to sign it (it was a massive faff and I was really annoyed) so tbh I don’t think YABU and I’d be worried that by signing it you would make things worse for your friend.

A friend of mine who had worked as a library assistant for some years signed passport forms more than once. She didnt lie about her job and it was never queried.

Absolutely. But the OP stated that her friend said that she should put one of the listed professions (not her own job), as “they never check”. So a poster said she had been contacted by HMPO when she signed for someone, and you said “And?”, and I was explaining why that was important in the circumstances. Sorry - this is convoluted, and I hope it makes sense!

you’re not on the approved list occupation so should decline. Be careful around her she’s trying to emotionally coerce you. That’s not a friend

Your countersignatory must either:

• work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
• be ‘a person of good standing in their community’

She falls into the 2nd option

I am a teacher and was constantly being asked to sign applications for passports. I have been contacted at school to check that I am a teacher.

Your countersignatory must either:

• work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
• be ‘a person of good standing in their community’

I looked at this the other day as someone was asking. I assume as long as you don’t have any convictions you should be fine. What happens if your a convict on the approved list…can they sign?!

good standing? How is that measured or observed?
what makes an individual good standing?

My son works in the NHS security department
he’s got an SIA badge and has signed passports for his friends

my neighbour also works for the NHS on reception at A&E and he signed my passport for me a few years ago

I’ve signed for them, and I was rang by passport agency, all above board so all ok, but they do check x

Being honest nowadays is a rare trait, well done you. So many on MN advocate shoplifting or drug taking or whatever. Well done you not to be coaxed into fraud despite lesser people would do so.

I think you can do it all by email now, we did this for my son's passport.

That’s for the passport office to decide, but surely someone who no criminal convictions would fall into that category.

You could have signed it without committing any fraud - they contact you to discuss it if they have any doubts, and if you have a UK password, a job and no criminal history your word will be good enough.

They honestly aren't that fussy. I signed lots when an Irish passport allowed you to do them - the passport office would ring me at work (NHS) to confirm I was a real person, chat to me about how I knew the person, and that was all they needed.

No OP can’t:

1. Who can be a referee

This section tells His Majesty’s Passport Office staff about the criteria to be a referee (a person who can confirm a customer’s identity).
A referee must be:

• a person of ‘good standing’ in the community and someone who
• has personally known the customer for at least 2 years
• works in a recognised profession (or who has retired from one)

No, ‘a person of good standing in their community’ means a person who has standing within the community but is not listed in the ‘professions’ list - for example a vicar/bishop/Imam or, say, a town councillor or the mayor.

An NHS administrator - however wonderful they are in that role - is not, at an individual level, of sufficient standing in her community on the basis of that job.

OP was absolutely right NOT to sign, not least because the same section of the gov.uk web page states: It’s a criminal offence to make a false declaration on a passport application.

YANBU I've signed passport photos but only those I know well. Just had issues getting someone to sign DS 1st adult passport, plenty of my friends who can sign but not necessarily seen him in last 2 yrs since he's been an adult but would not think of asking Anyone to falsely sign!
List of countersignatories is longer now but still can be difficult to find someone!