To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

[FaeryRing]

It seems like there is nothing the state shouldn’t be responsible for any more! Feeding your kids, getting them to school, hiring ‘behaviour specialists’ for every classroom because parents don’t want to discipline their own children, giving you money towards virtually anything you ask for because it’s not fair you have to pay for anything yourself.. I find it absolutely wild and don’t think it’s at all realistic or representative of what most adults believe?

I work in a school. Parental expectations have increased massively over the last few years, but the capacity of other agencies (health and social care, for example) to provide support has drastically reduced. Consequently we often feel we're being asked to take on more and more responsibility for families day to day lives that goes well beyond Education.

Like many schools we have set up a food bank and a pre-loved clothing bank, we wash and dry children's clothes when they come in filthy, we help parents who struggle with reading and writing to fill in housing and benefit forms, we show parents how to set up parental controls on their children's electronic devices and we provide breakfast, snacks, waterbottles and basic equipment for children who otherwise wouldn't have them. We run workshops for parents on getting your child into a good bedtime routine, making decent meals for your child on a budget and managing challenging behaviour in a way that doesn't involve hitting or shouting...things that definitely come under the category of parenting rather than education but are needed.

It's still not enough. We have always provided a high level of support for a handful of families who are living in difficult circumstances or simply aren't capable of meetings their children's practical and emotional needs due to their own issues and are happy to do so, but the numbers who need this support have grown rapidly and our school budget has dwindled so it's a struggle. The support from other agencies simply isn't there.

We also have an increasing number of middle class parents who have the resources and the ability but still expect us to take responsibility for many basic elements of parenting. I've had these parents tell me they can't possibly toilet train their own children, pick them up from school when they're sick, read with them, take them for an eye test or teach them how to use cutlery because they're "too busy". They seem genuinely annoyed at the suggestion they might do these things. They seem shocked when I don't agree that the school should take responsibility for finding them an afterschool childminder, for example.

So yes, I agree that some peoples expectations of state involvement are ridiculous. But I am also frustrated that the state isn't fulfilling its obligations to the most vulnerable in society and my staff and I are picking up the pieces.

Just to add there are still trade courses available at FE colleges and from the amounts I have paid out in recent years tradesmen do very well indeed and tradespeople are needed everywhere!

Of course I'm looking at a percentage, I was replying to a post that made a claim about the percentage receiving government assistance increasing to nearly 50%, I was showing it had broadly stayed the same at around 30%.

Yes, we have severely underinvested in infrastructure as we have such short-sighted politicians but of course you have to look at these things as a percentage or it's meaningless.

As the population has grown so has the tax revenue therefore we had more money to spend on upgrading the infrastructure but we didn't do it. Most countries population has increased in this time and they had the foresight to invest so it isn't a problem.

I am extremely happy with my life, I have a wonderful family, a roof over my head that is my own and I did all this by working low paid jobs, the ones that are not attractive to others, the jobs that people looked down on and said I needed to better. I am actually qualified in a trade, but the market is oversaturated and I would make little to no money, in fact I earn the same working retail, so that is what I do. My mental health is good, I have no stress and I am extremely lucky that is the case! I am a failure in many peoples eyes though.

That's not always,the case even for apprenticeship, you need maths and English at grade four or above, there are many kids including my own who really struggle with maths and English ,
And there is also a lot of competition for the best apprenticeship, s so it's not aa easy as yoy make out for less academic teenagers to go into plumbing ,etc would love my son to have a trade, he was critically ill last year just before he took his GCSE,s so his grades were badly affected ,he's doing maths and English again so fingers crossed.

@Woohow these are the figures, also on ONS

Why are you just limiting state dependency to council houses?

The link you posted has all the various forms - pension, UC, PIP and so on

There is a significant issue in the UK relating to respect for the vocational trades. Where would be be without our hairdressers, barbers, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. These roles are not often put forward in schools and neither, in my experience, do many in education value or suppprt them as they should and discuss them as viable career aspirations yet all the aforementioned are often successful small business holders. Instead we have curated a society built on cup cakes.

I am 80 miles from my mother; DH 240 from his. They are both in their late 80s. MIL has carers, paid for by DH daily and this will be upped fairly soon. My mother has developed some heart problems. I'll care for her or pay for her care.

DH could not have stayed in Yorkshire, his niche Bar does not exist there. It is London centric. DS got an academic role, as rare as hens' teeth because one came up in the North. If he hadn't been oreoared to go for it, he would still be a Post Doc Researcher. DD's bf will likely be seconded to Germany - it's exciting for them.

My grandmother's family left Ireland in the 1860s, grandfather's fled Russia in 1917, my father came to UK from Berlin, via Hamburg in 1938. If they had stayed they would be dead. Too many Brits have no idea of the imperatives to succeed. Even DH's grandad who went down the mine on his 14th birthday, joined the army on his 18th to escape to a better life. His views on why families wanted to send their young down the mine and the joy of the mining communities were bound in experience and hardship. He had no truck for those who wanted to perpetuate mining communities and that lifestyle.

All those mentioned above had the grit to escape and succeed and not one expected life on a plate.

To the pp who said the expectation for people to move for work arose in the 80s, that isn't quite correct, it principally arose after the agricultural revolution and significantly so in the industrial revolution. It has actually happened throughout time. Let's not forget the Mayflower and the Brits who went to Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Africa in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

They are both forms of government assistance that were practically the same so provided a good comparison. You're right though, it must have actually been much higher than 30% back then as I've only included council housing. The numbers have not remained fairly stead, they must be lower now after all.

I’ll have whatever you’re having.

I’ve quoted the percentage in pp. it’s gone up for overall state dependency

This!

Actually I would amend that to 'population who seem unable or are unwilling to show any level of personal responsibility'.

What's pp?

Scroll back to post at 11.44

No. You don't have children you can't afford or care for. It's appalling. If you are not even managing to feed your children 3 healthy meals a say you are failing as a parent.

I did, read it again too, did you mean post pandemic? I already replied to that point. The link was about ALL state benefits, it gave the total number of people receiving ANY state benefit as 22.4 million, about 1/3 of the population, about the same percentage as the number of people living in council housing in the 1970s. If you add the number receiving state benefits back then it may well be higher.

But if you mean the post you replied to I cannot really comment on that as putting something in quotation marks but not supplying the source means I cannot verify it's validity.

I agree with you that those parents are failing their children 100%. However, I think we as a society would also be failing those children if we didn't step in to make sure that they have all the opportunities that other children have. We don't punish children because they had the misfortune to be botlrn to parents unwilling or unable to provide for them.

All the opportunities other children have? Or nutrition, a roof and warmth?

Here you go. I think you’ve gone a bit off piste by focusing purely on council housing. State dependency is the full range not just that

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/government-britons-jeremy-hunt-mel-stride-nhs-b2267161.html

I agree, I really do, but we’re reaching a point where the level of need is just increasing and increasing to a point that society can barely keep up with it any more. It was fine when the needs were fairly basic but they’re far more complicated now thanks to drugs, the rise of special needs, an unwillingness for school leavers to take on ‘unglamorous’ jobs and the avalanche of mental health issues.

Those and education opportunities so they have at least a chance of a better life.

Plus DLA is projected to go through the roof (if it isn’t already), that’s not me criticising any one individual but surely even the ‘big staters’ among you can see this is not sustainable?

Disability benefits spending is forecast to be £39.1 billion in Great Britain in 2023-24. We forecast spending to increase to £58.1 billion in 2028-29. That would represent around 4 per cent of total public spending, and 2 per cent of GDP.

The latter figure is the same as the the funding allocated to ALL schools in the U.K.!!

Every child has education opportunities don’t they?

You are failing as a human if you refuse to see that many people who are working cannot give their children this, it's not just the feckless "keep breeding despite being on 30k benefits a year" people. Food bank use has from around 60k people using in 2010 to almost 3million users last year!