Wealth is draining out of the UK

[Ifmenhadperiods]

I was at an event with business people the other week. One of the high net worths said to me that no wealthy foreigner he knows will stay in the UK long term. He is local but says anyone with foreign connections and wealth is fleeing abroad - and taking their businesses with them. That is the chat around his dinner table in Holland Park.

One indisputable piece of evidence I guess is the massive slump in companies that list in the UK. We also have so few pension funds investing in UK business. Personally I don’t blame them: my own shares ISA is invested in the US and has grown by 30% in the last year, a figure UK shares just can’t compete with. Most of our FTSE top companies are in legacy industries like fossil fuels while elsewhere they’re in tech and innovation as well
as traditional companies.

Several friends have left here and gone to the US in the last decade and they say the lifestyle is excellent (and they earn far more, working in tech).

I have also spoken to friend’s older DC (6th formers) and some who have had offers from Oxford and Cambridge are rejecting them in favour of Ivy League schools.

Apparently Ivy leagues are FAR better at getting students to think about their careers from day one. Oxbridge is amazing at teaching you the subject in an academically rigorous way, but Ivy leagues pair you up with business investors if you do a degree such as economics. They have fees assistance for households earning up to 400k US dollars. Here you can’t get student loans if you have more than about £50k in household income.
I know the fees are higher there but they also have more scholarships in the US.

We are about to tax private schools. A popular policy with the public. But again, apparently the wealthy foreigners who can afford this tax are worried it will shake out the middle class Brits they want their kids to go to school with! They don’t just want their kids to go to school with foreign and British super elites. They’re quite fond of the eccentric Brits.

It seems every way you turn, there’s little incentive to make money especially with the cliff edge in income taxation. And the worst thing is it’s understandable because of the massive levels of wage stagnation we have to subsidise through working tax credits (no real wage growth for 20 years!).

We don’t want immigrants but we have no one to pay for our massive welfare bill which is made up mostly of a triple locked state pension and grossly inefficient health system.

If you’re lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash, forget moving up the property ladder, owning a holiday home or a rental (tax hell lies in all those paths).

Can anyone shake me out of this pessimism? Of course I know we are lucky not to be in Syria or Afghanistan or Gaza. But this is about the decline of the UK rather than where we are compared to truly volatile or oppressive countries. I genuinely don’t want to emigrate but fear we - along with anyone who was once comfortable but never wealthy - are going to have a very uncomfortable retirement - if I make it that far - and our DCs will face a future in a country that will continue to get poorer, with the entrepreneurial class deserting us.

The greedy shits don’t seem to have any problem buying up all the mansions in London and leaving them empty.

I’m in north Australia- everyone seems to be young,good looking. Relaxed, happy, everywhere (shops,new motorways etc) is booming - but the reason it is this way is the fortune they are making in shipping coal and iron ore to China - not so good for the planet - also
https://www.bbc.com/news/world/australia

So you can have rich successful countries but their wealth might be having a damaging effect (like the UKs did in 29th/20thC) on everyone else on earth.

I’m afraid most people are still going to vote Labour after reading your post, OP. Nice try though.

Also just imagine how much money are we paying all the American IT companies,who doesn’t pay monthly for Netflix or buy off Amazon? - the tax from these must be trillions going into USA coffers. Money that used to be spent in U.K. -were stuffed but we are all contributing to it.

Yes nice try OP with your doom and gloom scare mongering.

Google is investing in a massive new build in Hereford. Amazon have spent and continue to invest millions - technology, retail, music, tv etc.

Many firms are reshoring/returning to the UK as oversees production is becoming more expensive - wage rises (quite right due worker exploitation) etc. This created 300k jobs in 2023. Additionally, local production means things like constant technology updates and shorter production runs due to faster fashion trends can be turned around quickly. Due to technology development this country can now produce with lower overheads e g. more robotics.

The Panama canal incident with containers stuck for a month showed weaknesses in supply chain here which are now being addressed, again through reshoring and investing.

Covid19 showed us we must be more self sufficient and again we're learning from this. Covid19 also showed the world that we have the resources to develop and produce vaccines rapidly thanks to our academic and production capabilities.

As a result of Brexit, again we are looking within for defence and companies that were closed years ago are re-opening Harland-Wolff is an example - reopening ship yards across the country after 60 years and winning defence contracts. Calling former staff out if retirement to pass their trade, knowledge and skills to apprentices.

References by you to business meetings in Holland Park don't wash. Many firms are now moving up north due to cheaper running costs and better transport links across the wider UK. Views in posts such as yours (whatever your motivation) are attempts at pulling this country down

Did you really think people would swallow this? Your private investors who don't want to invest in UK businesses? Like, for example, the investors in Thames Water who have taken millions out of the company whilst neglecting to maintain the infrastructure and now want customers to foot the bill? Good riddance.

Was there really any need to quote the extremely long OP?!

Where the fuck is north Australia? Are you referring to parts of WA, NT, QLD?

And what you're describing is all over Australia. Wealthy foreign students also keep us rich, but they also hoover up property to park their cash somewhere they think is safe.

Oh, OP. One day you're dining in Holland Park, the next you're posting on Mumsnet. It's a topsy turvy world alright.

BUT! Fear not! Because the wealth of the wealthiest people in Britain is increasing at a truly staggering rate. From £48 billion in 2009 to £182 billion in 2022. Phew. Looks like the poor loves will be okay after all.

https://www.statista.com/chart/27505/uks-richest-are-getting-richer/

The cliff edge tax schedule and the low wage economy requiring so much topping up stand out from your post.

In effect, the bottom line of business is kept in place by the taxpayer, and the cliff edges (university loans and taxes) are a disincentive.

Also salient is the liberal arts model of American third level education. Requiring graduates of leading universities and liberal arts colleges to have Calc III under their belts along with a variety of different disciplines - mfl, sciences, humanities, literature, philosophy, etc - makes for a versatile workforce.

WHY DO PEOPLE NEED TO QUOTE THE OP? Can someone please answer this!!!

A lot of foreign business, especially of the UHNW kind you mention, is leaving/has left due to more stringent regulations (especially on money laundering - source of funds etc.) and to a lesser extent, sanctions (especially Russia). Arguably a lot of this business is not desirable or the legitimate in the first place, and is generally not additive to the broader economy. That said, there has definitely been some collateral damage - i.e. legal, legit businesses from abroad for which the regulatory/compliance burden is simply no longer worth it.

Brisbane, further west Bris, North NT ,now north west WA travelling over 2 months

Is it bugging you when people do that FuckTheClubUp? Awww bless

TL;DR rich people go wah wah wah

Boo hoo!

@mathanxiety Do liberal arts majors really have to take Calc III?!
I didn’t realize that. My DD is a freshman STEM major so she obviously does.

@BruFord
All of my DCs, in state and private universities/ liberal arts colleges, have taken calc III. Only one was a STEM major. The rest were humanities majors.

@LadyLolaRuben Interested in what you said about google/Hereford but I tried to google and nothing came up? Have you got a link?

We don’t really need rich people spending a bit of money here though what we need is to make things the rest of the world want us to export to them

The UK is terminal decline regardless of whether it's the red or blue arse cheeks.

Brexit has merely accelerated the process and removed the fake veneer.

@user1477391263 How would my post deter people voting Labour when this decline has happened under a Tory govt? Not sure Labour can turn it around - and they started some of this - but Tories have had long enough.

To a PP, event was not in Holland Park. Business person lives there.

I hadn’t mentioned Brexit but they did. Said Americans were miffed as one of the reasons for working with us was that we were a bridge to the EU for them.

Am also interested in @LadyLolaRuben news - genuinely! I want to be more optimistic. We are a product of what we consume and the people around us so please feed me good news!

The wealth graph was also interesting. Only applies to top 10 richest though.

I'm almost 50. Don't think I've ever heard a rich businessman say; "Well, we've been incredibly fortunate to run our business in this stable, wealthy country, whose citizens have preserved democracy, paid taxes which subsidize a well educated, well cared for population, and where our money is safe because of a regulated banking system" All they do is fucking moan about how hard done by they are, and threaten to leave.

I guess the fact that the Tories have spent 14 years knackering the economy and defunding everything has nothing to do it with it. Must be labour's fault. 🙄

Your post may ring true with a tiny privileged section of the population. Many of us will find it unrelatable and will not identify with what you are saying. The value of a shared ISA is not the biggest issue for most people right now so I don’t really care about most of the issues you mention. Sorry!

News this week that IPCC scientists largely expect 2.5C warming before end of century.
So no, I fully expect the UK (and global north) to be an extremely desirable residence.