Wealth is draining out of the UK

[Ifmenhadperiods]

I was at an event with business people the other week. One of the high net worths said to me that no wealthy foreigner he knows will stay in the UK long term. He is local but says anyone with foreign connections and wealth is fleeing abroad - and taking their businesses with them. That is the chat around his dinner table in Holland Park.

One indisputable piece of evidence I guess is the massive slump in companies that list in the UK. We also have so few pension funds investing in UK business. Personally I don’t blame them: my own shares ISA is invested in the US and has grown by 30% in the last year, a figure UK shares just can’t compete with. Most of our FTSE top companies are in legacy industries like fossil fuels while elsewhere they’re in tech and innovation as well
as traditional companies.

Several friends have left here and gone to the US in the last decade and they say the lifestyle is excellent (and they earn far more, working in tech).

I have also spoken to friend’s older DC (6th formers) and some who have had offers from Oxford and Cambridge are rejecting them in favour of Ivy League schools.

Apparently Ivy leagues are FAR better at getting students to think about their careers from day one. Oxbridge is amazing at teaching you the subject in an academically rigorous way, but Ivy leagues pair you up with business investors if you do a degree such as economics. They have fees assistance for households earning up to 400k US dollars. Here you can’t get student loans if you have more than about £50k in household income.
I know the fees are higher there but they also have more scholarships in the US.

We are about to tax private schools. A popular policy with the public. But again, apparently the wealthy foreigners who can afford this tax are worried it will shake out the middle class Brits they want their kids to go to school with! They don’t just want their kids to go to school with foreign and British super elites. They’re quite fond of the eccentric Brits.

It seems every way you turn, there’s little incentive to make money especially with the cliff edge in income taxation. And the worst thing is it’s understandable because of the massive levels of wage stagnation we have to subsidise through working tax credits (no real wage growth for 20 years!).

We don’t want immigrants but we have no one to pay for our massive welfare bill which is made up mostly of a triple locked state pension and grossly inefficient health system.

If you’re lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash, forget moving up the property ladder, owning a holiday home or a rental (tax hell lies in all those paths).

Can anyone shake me out of this pessimism? Of course I know we are lucky not to be in Syria or Afghanistan or Gaza. But this is about the decline of the UK rather than where we are compared to truly volatile or oppressive countries. I genuinely don’t want to emigrate but fear we - along with anyone who was once comfortable but never wealthy - are going to have a very uncomfortable retirement - if I make it that far - and our DCs will face a future in a country that will continue to get poorer, with the entrepreneurial class deserting us.

@RainbowFlutter absolutely- the majority of the super rich are not paying their tax here if anywhere!! for every Paul McCartney or Elton John who are upfront about tax paying, there's 20 that have been using non dom type arrangements-and even if those are stopped they will have other methods of keeping their UK tax as low as possible .there are whole industry's here around this type of thing- why do you think the UK is attractive to lots of them- it sure ain't the weather

That’s why I said I’d rather pay more tax. Why didn’t you quote the whole thing?

But I personally would be happy to be taxed more by a government committed to providing high quality public services.

I’m sure you are very on board with higher taxes given you don’t work anymore blossom 🙄

We have lost Stack exchange business because of Brexit and the bungled negotiations that came after. But most 'lost business has gone to New York not Frankfurt.
We have a poor performing FTSE 250 and an appalling Aim market. Plus500 was showing promise but that is stalled because of huge salary of the CEO.

When you google google make sure you google correctly or you wont find anything related to google!

Yes, we are paying very high taxes for not much return. In other countries they are fine paying very high taxes because they can see public services improve and things run properly. In this country everything is a shambles. The Tories wonder why their 'Tax Cuts' mantra isnt cutting through, its because and extra £5 a month doesn't help when food prices are still sky high and you have to pay £100 to go to a private dentist because there aren't any NHS ones, and you cant swim in the sea because its filled with sewage.

That’s why I said I’d rather pay more tax. Why didn’t you quote the whole thing?

I didn't think it was particularly relevant to my point.

What taxes would you be happy to pay more of? Income? CGT? IHT? Or a new one?

High earners will be the next to go, mark my words, and then who will pay all of these taxes! <tumbleweed>

I was surprised by this post too! I qualify for both UK and US state pension (social security). In the US at age 67, my monthly payment is estimated at $3500 per month or $42,000 per year (it's based on what you paid in). I think the top amount is closer to $50k.

I have had very positive NHS experiences and worked with/for the health service, but the NHS isn't a shining beacon for immigrants used to care in the US, Singapore, Australia, etc, which makes it hard to attract those employees and entrepreneurs. The private system is patchwork, too.

For some of my friends who have left the UK, the NHS was the reason why -- lack of preventative care, poorer survival rates for cancer, lack of confidence that they'll be looked after if they get seriously ill.

Good riddance to all the tax-avoiding non-doms and other parasites...

What about the other few million ‘parasites’?? Contributing a lot less than the average ‘non dom’ ….

Wrong post sorry!,

😂

''@Polishedshoesalways · Today 15:56
Startingagainandagain · Today 15:54

Good riddance to all the tax-avoiding non-doms and other parasites...
What about the other few million ‘parasites’?? Contributing a lot less than the average ‘non dom’ …''

You mean the Tories and Farage? I am happy for them to also piss off somewhere else.

Maybe they can move to Rwanda as they seem to highly rate the place.

🤭

youre right about the private school demographic - in the cities it does seem to be that the % of Brits has fallen. The cost yes, but also state schools are often excellent and suit liberal principles more.

I know the thread has moved on but actually I broadly agree with the OP.

Staying in the UK if you are economically mobile isn’t very appealing at the moment. If I didn’t have kids at good school I would consider a move abroad (I have another passport so can move there)

I’ve heard similar chatter from friends. We are in the highly taxed bracket, and it doesn’t feel that the UK is heading in a good direction. I’d rather take my tax elsewhere and have a better quality of life

I thought this was going to be about the government and their corruption draining the country

@DramaLlamaBangBang yes- hence my post about when we lived in Denmark- tax was higher (as were wages) but it was easier to see what you were getting for your tax dollar-cheap childcare, better roads, (although not as good as Germany) visible police, clean streets, good transport, good hospitals , very clean sea and rivers and beaches and higher pensions.

Denmark has much higher CGT doesn’t it? And there isn’t the 1m exception for inheritance of family home.

And employers have to pay a set amount into a pension

@Pollipops1 yes but a lot of these things here are only of any use if you stand to inherit substantial amounts or have made big amounts on property etc - that's not the majority and is of no use to large swathes of the population - and for many due to get these things it won't happen either till their late 50s and 60s- I have a friend hoping to buy a home on her inheritance - she is early 60s - parents are late 80s - that is reasonably common .

My children have reasonably wealthy grandparents (property wealth rather than milionnaire status level) We wont be seeing any inheritance at all because it will all be going into my childrens university fees/ house deposits. Fees that previous generations didn't pay, and house deposits that were 4 figures instead of 5.

Non doms have to either pay a levy (which is more tax than most people pay) or pay tax on their global income. Otherwise everyone tax resident in the uk has to pay tax on their global income.

But loads of people have made big sums on property, obviously not everywhere but many people have made small fortunes. Grandparents dying often results in money skipping to grandkids. And then some people have holiday homes, BTLs etc.

I was just making the point that Denmark taxes are spread more equally across different sources, the UK is imo too weighted on PAYE.