If you're a parent would you think this was ridiculous if I pulled you aside after school for this?

[L4815162342]

I work in a school.

A 5/6 year old today trod on a small bug. He did this on purpose.

I'd like to say it was because he didn't know better but this was half an hour after a lesson on looking after the environment and things we could do to care for nature. Lots was mentioned about animals, etc.

I pulled the child up and spoke to him about his behaviour. He essentially received the equivalent of a bad behaviour point as a result.

If you were pulled aside after school as a parent and told about this incident would you think it was ridiculous?

I know people have different views, some would draw the line at hurting an animal the size of a cat, for example, but wouldn't bat an eyelash at killing a spider.

I would be happy to be told as a parent, either face to face or through a note on whatever you use to record student behaviour. It would enable me to have a chat with my child and reiterate to them that it’s not acceptable to kill living creatures for fun or curiosity.

I once told a Year 8 student I would give him a detention if I saw him purposefully standing on another bee. I also told a class of students fretting over a spider that I was coming across the room right now to remove it and if any of them hurt the spicer then they would receive a detention.

The other bees and the spider remained unharmed.

But the parents going on about cruelty I assume are all vegan.

Often at school they can choose. Behaviour points only for the little psychopaths that choose milk instead of water. And a note home to mum.

I was talking with another parent about this exact topic this morning, coincidentally. Personally I wouldn't expect a teacher to mention this unless it was part of a worrying set of behaviour patterns or had become a trend. We had carpet moths bombed out of our house quite recently and we are not psychopaths.

Was that in line with the school's behaviour policy, or just something you made up?

What you're trying to do is teach a young child empathy for the bug, by 6 lots of kids will have some empathy but some won't have much at all. I don't think punishing a child is the way to teach them empathy though.

It's possible that this child doesn't have much empathy for bugs because his mum is terrified of them and so his dad kills them. Either that or he may just not be a very naturally empathetic sort due to genetics - either way his parents probably aren't going to take much notice of what he did.

I'd stick to the good old 'imagine what it would be like for you if a giant foot came out the sky and stood on you'.

My 3.5 yo knows not to kill any animals. He did it once and we told him why not (stood on spider or ants).
I would want to know this from the teacher so I could continue to reinforce at home

I would not welcome being pulled aside for this one and would be internally rolling my eyes at you. Definitely pull the child up on it at the time, but what purpose will it serve bringing it to the parents attention? Not one for busy parents.

The school’s behaviour policy was that I could issue a detention for failing to follow a teacher’s instructions. I had told them not to do something, and warned them that if they did do it they would receive a detention. So if they ignored me I was within my rights to give them a detention, yes.

You would think mindless cruelty towards living creatures (honestly, who walks along purposefully stomping on bees?) would be an automatic sanction.

The where do you draw the line question always makes me think about abortion I am pro abortion but o do find it odd that some of my friends tell me off if I eradicate a bee but think it is ok to abort a foetus.

You will exterminate them. Exterminate! Exterminate!

@L4815162342 are you TA/Learning Support and you and class teacher have differing views on the incident?

I would think the teacher was being a bit over dramatic.

I’d never have hurt an animal, nor allowed the kids to, but I’ve used fly spray, flea spray, etc and battered indoor spiders for decades.🤷‍♀️

Deliberate cruelty is worth mentioning to parents but I would hope that school staff focus on cruelty toward peers. I always found that taunting, stealing possessions, putting dirt down trousers etc was seen by staff as normal childhood behaviour. I was never informed of this by staff, just my child and then it was confirmed it had happened but 'he seemed to enjoy it'.

It's a little rich that the feelings of bugs are put above the feelings of ASD kids.

You sound like a great teacher OP. I found when my kids were young that parents that allowed this sort of thing generally raised bullies, kids who think the world owes them a living that sort of thing. Just what I've observed. I don't think much of adults who kill something for no reason either.

I think most kids have enjoyed squishing something once or twice. If it was a one off no, you've told him it was unkind, leave it at that. If he was constantly seeking out things to squish, or doing other hurtful things too, then yes tell the parents.

Very interesting point. I wouldn't kill a bee but there again unless in the case of severe life threatening disability, or such like, I wouldn't kill an unborn child either.

I think the punishment is disproportionate to the behaviour.

Yes, I agree in principle that insects that are not harmful pests should not be killed for fun. If it was for fun, killing an insect on purpose can often be instinctual and from fear like when a spider is running towards you and you panic rather than ha ha I squashed you.

The teacher should only have done a tut tut and a that’s not very nice word with the child. Or at least found out why they had done it on purpose.

Adding on a chat with parents after school and a demerit/bad behaviour point is overly punitive.

Are you asking because the parent reacted badly OP? Or just wondering if you overreacted?

The where do you draw the line question always makes me think about abortion I am pro abortion but o do find it odd that some of my friends tell me off if I eradicate a bee but think it is ok to abort a foetus.

To this and all the “but are you vegan" people. Once again, it is possible to feel empathy for animals and still eat meat or be pro abortion. We are human and life is various shades of grey... Not everyone is puritan and I dont understand the idea that one should only be allowed to feel or talk about empathy toward living things if one has never killed a mosquito or eaten bacon in their lives. Real life doesnt work that way and all these people are just talking theory (and they know it).

The point here is about cruelty and/or killing or torturing an animal for fun. Surely everyone would agree that is not right? Eating meat, most people justify it by saying we have been built that way, our bodies need meat, they dont see the suffering, they think animals have good welfare until they are killed and all the other various argumentations etc etc... Same with abortion, most people would have highly sensitive, individual circumstances and most people do not take that decision lightly at all. You may think right or wrong, but the point is, the act of killing and its purpose is debatable in both of these cases. But in neither case it is usually just purposeless or just for fun, as in just stepping on bugs cos we like to hear the squishy noises! Surely you see that?

So being a meat eater or proabortionist or any other whatabout this, doesnt mean that the same people cannot feel empathy towards a bee. This kind of argumentation is really pointless and just closes off any debate.

In my house we are in open and aggressive warfare with clothes moths.

We escort spiders and bees out, but kill moths and wasps. I think you are being precious.

So you never kill a mosquito? What would you do with a wasps' nest?

Edited: also clothes moths.

And you don't do gardening, clearly (unless you have a garden like ours which largely runs itself, but you still need to deal with bugs on occasion).

Typical perfect MNer (who I am sure isn't in real life).

the teacher told me this I would wonder what they were expecting me to do about it - supposedly they already told the child so what else?

Well exactly.

No, and as I said above, not really one for busy teachers, either.

The OP either has nothing to do, or is working herself into an early grave.

Chill.

I think with the abortion argument - it’s not actually a living thing at that point. It’s a cluster of cells for most people with potential to be living but not at the point of termination. Same as an egg from a chicken etc.

Provided it’s not a late termination (and there are very good medical grounds for those) then a termination is simply removing the possibility of life in that moment. In those circumstances. It’s ethically sound in my view as a vegan and pro life person generally.

It would obviously be murder if the child was born and living and then killed - the bug is a living thing, has a mother etc and a life of its own. Animals and some insects are conscious.

I'm sure the vast majority of people woudnt kill a bee. The point is whether you believe killing all living creatures is wrong even a killer snake or spider if it's about to attack a baby. The OP didn't state the child squished a bug for fun. He may have been genuinely frightened at 5/6 years old and didn't do this out of spite or to have fun. A fear of poisonous or stinging insects is genuine and often its a case of its either me or you if your venom is going to kill me.