If you're a parent would you think this was ridiculous if I pulled you aside after school for this?

[L4815162342]

I work in a school.

A 5/6 year old today trod on a small bug. He did this on purpose.

I'd like to say it was because he didn't know better but this was half an hour after a lesson on looking after the environment and things we could do to care for nature. Lots was mentioned about animals, etc.

I pulled the child up and spoke to him about his behaviour. He essentially received the equivalent of a bad behaviour point as a result.

If you were pulled aside after school as a parent and told about this incident would you think it was ridiculous?

I know people have different views, some would draw the line at hurting an animal the size of a cat, for example, but wouldn't bat an eyelash at killing a spider.

Yes, me too. I grow fruit and veg in the garden as well as bee friendly flowers and I absolutely “remove” slugs and snails that are destroying the plants. My DC do it too after discovering every single one of the sunflowers we have planted destroyed for instance.

If I’m on holiday and a mosquito is flying about the room I will absolutely try to squash it rather than let it hurt me.

Most insects I will leave and I obviously teach my children how important bees and wasps can be and why we need to leave worms alone.. but a small child squishing an insect is such a non event, I’d be shocked if a teacher mentioned it.

I think I might wonder if you'd done a good enough job with your environmental talk, actually. I wouldn't automatically think the child was some kind of psychopath, no.

But the question is, is this bad behaviour. I’m a bug rescuer rather than a bug squashed, but plenty of adults squash bugs without thinking. If that’s what you see the adults around you doing, then you are going to think that’s ok. And if the lesson didn’t specifically say ‘don’t squash bugs’ and your parents do all the time, it’s easy to think that as a 5 year old, who aren’t renowned for good impulse control, might do that. Too too heavy authoritarian approach in my mind. Sanctioning him achieved zero.

You think? At age 5 I would expect a child to know that you don't hurt living creatures especially after watching a programme about it. Or do bugs not count?

I'd think it was odd and excessive if you mentioned it to me as a parent. The only insects I kill are flies and those like fleas/mossies that are likely to bite but as this thread demonstrates, kids are surrounded by adults merrily stamping, swatting and spraying away so hardly surprising if they copy that behaviour.

I'm horrified by how many people think this is nothing and admit to killing things on purpose! I would absolutely want to know, and would be very cross and would go back over the lessons I've already taught my son about being gentle with living creatures, never harming them on purpose.

I'm not saying he's an angel - he has stamped on ants in the past, which he said was because his friend was doing it. (I take this with a large pinch of salt, obviously - he was 4.) But I was very cross when he did it, and I made sure I took every opportunity to get him looking at insects closely and understanding that they're alive, just like us.

The only thing I do kill is mosquitos - and yes, it's hypocritical - but I'm allergic to their bites and every summer I'll get one that gets infected and needs antibiotics. Something that can harm me - I will get rid of it (though I try to usher out of the window first.) A harmless spider or ant - cruel, disgusting behaviour.

To me it depends on the creature. I kill rosemary beetles and lily beetles that I see on our flowers. I also kill slugs and snails that I come across in the garden, because I'd rather eat the lettuce and things that I grow vs letting the slugs eat them. I suspect my kids would leave a ladybird alone, but kill pest creatures. We also feed ants to spiders because they like to see the spiders come out. I'd probably ask what creature then laugh if it was a pest creature.

*Giraffesandbottoms · Yesterday 23:12

Is it wrong? If I see a spider I would definitely stamp on it deliberately. And if I see a slug I would get DH to kill it! We kill ants and bugs walking along all day long I see on purpose it’s a bit different but I would have 0 qualms getting rid of a few of them eg wasps and I can’t see how it’s a huge issue.*

As we see from this post above although most people would agree this is completely cruel and wrong behaviour in our relationship with the ecosystem, some people deliberately hurt it and have “0 qualms” about it. So this child might be modelling this bad behaviour.

Or ridiculous Whataboutery about incidents that effect 0.0001% of the population, "what about you have a huge allergic shock when you touch an insect, what about lack of empathy when someone can lose a leg if they get stung...” come on, that doesnt legitimise everyone to go and kill insects.

And the other usual MN whataboutery response of "what about meat, what about rose fertilisers, are you eating meat, you cant say anything at all about cruelty in that case, blah blah" , is another reason why this kind of threads get nowhere constructive. You know you can eat meat and also be kind to ladybugs who did nothing to deserve to be killed. I dont eat meat by the way but I dont go around turning every discussion on the environment into a competitive morality sport. Everyone does what they feel they can. But everyone should be able to do the minimal thing, which is not to deliberately seek animals to kill for zero reason. And teaching children that is easy and doable.

The teacher understands perfectly, thank you.

Oooh, that's a major assertion, OP. A real red flag. Teachers are only ordinary people with biases and beliefs that affect their views.

Do you understand perfectly about, say, sex and gender issues, too? Do you think children can be born into the wrong body — and do you think you understand better than the childrens' parents on that issue too?

This.

You are in loco parentis, you discipline the child for things happening on your watch.

I don't like the way teachers tell parents every little thing these days. There is no need. Patterns of serious misbehaviour, yes. One-offs, no. No wonder teachers are stressed and have no time when they are having meetings with parents for every minor misdemeanour.

PS doesn't it also depend on what the "bug" is. I went to an outdoor fitness class the other evening and came away with about 15 mozzie bites, despite using insect repellent. I would laugh if you told me or my child not to kill midges!

As a life long vegetarian, now vegan I do partially agree with you.

There’s a huge disconnect in people’s minds between their food and source of food.

Every meat eater seems to eat meat from a lovely exclusively grass fed cow who has never been given any antibiotics/given hormones etc who was shot in her sleep whilst having her ear scratched.

Or milk comes from cows who have given birth every few years to only female cows who just joined their mothers herd.

But the lives of the vast majority of farm animals are very different.

Schools should educated children about the rise in intensive farming, what that means animals feeding their young in cramped cages with barely room to lie, chickens deformed and standing in shit. Calves slaughtered their mothers repeatedly pregnant.

Farm animals are generally herbivores, they need far more food than us it’s destroying the planet. They are fed most of the Soy products that are responsible for forest clearing, there’s no consensus on the effects on the human body of the medication/hormones in these animals. People need to be aware of those things.

Glibly being aware ham comes from a pig is not enough.

Although I’d love more people to be vegan, some just aren’t going to do it. What we can encourage is to eat far less animal products , it’s good for the animals, is and the planet. People med to be willing to pay a price which supports good living conditions for all of these animals.

For a consumer of animal products I can see that they would be a distinction between killing something for food and fun, even though for me they are the same thing.

You haven’t said what he said about why he’d done it or where he’d learned to do that. ‘Deliberately cruel’ is quite a leap. There is a whole heap of history and context you haven’t shared. Plus, that is NORMAL behaviour for LOTS of adults. I don’t agree with it but it’s very much a grey area. If you eat chicken (apart from free range) then you are knowingly contributing to the incredibly awful suffering of a far more sentient animal. So should you get a negative sanction?

You not liking the behaviour is different to it being wrong. In this case you should have chatted with him to help him to learn and understand - not put in a behavioural sanction.

I'd want to know, because I'm quite strict about these things - in our house we don't harm anything, and treat even spiders with care. I'd be shocked and saddened to hear my child went out of their way to be cruel, and it is still cruel to harm insects.

Not ridiculous at all, it might even have been an associate of mine.😢

What a weird comment.

How does teaching a child not to kill animals for fun, have anything to do with trans gender issues.

So if you make it about their parenting you can expect a bad reaction
"Personally, I'd want to know as I'd like to think I'd raised my child to respect all living creatures."

Also just because you "had a lesson" about something doesn't mean they internalised it. Children don't just take it on trust everything told by an adult (and normal should they)
To be honest it sounds like having had it brought to their attention about bugs, they are pushing that to see what actually happens themselves.

Your attitude doesn't sound good especially the thing about "even your autistic child wouldn't do that" as if autism is the worst disability in the world?? Or the only source of things that annoy or trigger adults? Or that somehow all autistic people have the same struggles.

Personally I think ok fine to mention it, but clearly your attitude was the problem not the content. Think harder about your triggers.

That's true. On these posts you always get the oh I bet you're a hypocrite how can you claim to care about animals if you eat meat...

There were even a couple on the awful thread about the monkey torture if you can believe it!!

Having a chicken dinner means you don't get to say that torturing monkeys to death for entertainment is wrong.

Jesus.

I had a piece of bacon yesterday so I'll just go microwave my cat and then yeet my neighbours puppy into the wood chipper. 🙄

Honestly the punishment the teacher has given is excessive. Correct the child but it’s a first time stamping on a bug, so a moment to re enforce bug kind behaviour not give a black mark

You see, as a vegan educated about the awful tortuous conditions many farm animals live in, for me I don’t think there is a difference between paying money to support what is most likely tortuous conditions for a pig and killing your cat (at least your cat probably had a nice life to date).

But this is my perspective- many people do draw a distinction between a pig and a cat for some reason and that’s up to them, it most likely results from a disconnect between the treatment of many intensively farm animals and pets. When someone sits next to me eating a ham sandwich there would be no difference to me if they were eating a dog sandwich. But to me all animals should be treated well and that includes insects.

No it’s absolute correct and I would be speaking to the parent. A 6 year old should know not to purposely harm another living thing, basic parenting should have sorted this several years ago tbh.

I’d want to know, it’s mean behaviour

You are imposing your own morals which I don’t think is your place.

You are stating that it is wrong, but that is subjective. I kill bugs in my house. That isn’t wrong in my opinion. You won’t agree with that, and that’s fine, but it is not your place to decide my or my child’s view on it.

You said it is different killing a bug to killing an animal to eat but I have to say that I disagree with that. Have you seen the way the majority of animals are kept and killed in the meat industry? Have you looked into the dreadful dairy industry. If you are anything other than vegan, you are being hypocritical. And even if you are vegan, it’s still not your place to judge this child or speak to their parent.

Fine for a teacher to mention to my child, but I'd think it was batsh!t of a teacher to mention to me as a parent

I have my own five year old. They also have ASD. They know it's wrong to do this kind of thing
Doesn’t mean all children with ASD will understand that it is wrong. Or even all young children. Especially when the killing of some insects (spiders, flies etc) is often shown on TV/comic books and even sometimes presented in a comical way.

Back to your original question: I the teacher told me this I would wonder what they were expecting me to do about it - supposedly they already told the child so what else?