Auriol Grey's manslaughter sentence overturned for killing cyclist. Correct decision?

[Locutus2000]

Reported in multiple outlets - BBC.

Mixed feelings - it was a complex case with no winners on any side.

She has a learning disability.

This should never have gone to trial.

I think a lot of the support for Ms Grey on here is down to the fact she’s female, older, likely with some form of disability and seems a social outcast tbh. I think a lot of people identify with some of her features and therefore stick up for her where they wouldn’t if she was a thuggy looking bloke

She would’ve been found unfit if she was that impaired.

The elderly cyclist could have just as easily been a child. Remember that when you're all sticking up for that vile creature.

There are plenty of news articles confirming that she was a known troublemaker if you can be bothered to google.

Incorrect that anything with wheels belongs on the road.

Many, many pavements and paths are shared cycle lanes. Which means that both pedestrians AND cyclists have the right to be there. Even if you disagree with this and dislike cyclists as many people seem to, that does not mean that an elderly cyclist deserves to be forced into the road to die in oncoming traffic. Not only killing a woman but also ruining the life of the poor car driver.

It can't be proved that Grey pushed the cyclist because the CCTV isn't clear enough to see if contact was made. But it is very clear and obvious that Grey intended to force the cyclist into the road knowing that there was fast moving traffic.

Being disabled is not an excuse for dangerous, antisocial, aggressive behaviour towards innocent members of the public.

I wouldn't go that far, though I won't lie and say I haven't been tempted, especially when it is the aggressive deliveroo drivers on their bikes going far too fast.

It can't be proved that Grey pushed the cyclist because the CCTV isn't clear enough to see if contact was made. But it is very clear and obvious that Grey intended to force the cyclist into the road knowing that there was fast moving traffic.

Being disabled is not an excuse for dangerous, antisocial, aggressive behaviour towards innocent members of the public.

This 100% sums up my thoughts.

No, you don't have to touch someone, but screaming and waving your arms does not generally count. To get a conviction for common assault, you have to show that the accused acted in a manner that caused someone to fear that they were about to be unlawfully attacked, and that the accused intended to threaten force or was reckless (i.e. they were aware of the risk that their actions might be interpreted as a threat of force, took the risk anyway and their actions were unreasonable in the circumstances). The Court of Appeal considered this and concluded that the prosecution could not prove that the cyclist thought she was going to be attacked and that, even if they could, they could not prove that she intended to threaten force or was reckless, especially given her disabilities.

@Welovecrumpets Agree entirely. Although, she actually looks pretty scary herself on the video, when she's shouting "get off the F ing pavement".

I didn’t agree with the conviction at the time. But actually, the charge probably WAS right (legally speaking). Assault in the UK covers not just the battery element, but also if the perpetrator caused the victim to FEEL at risk of violence/harm. So if AG did commit an assault, which she may have done as the cyclist clearly was in fear of an attack to have swerved, I think the charge of unlawful act manslaughter was probably the only charge that the CPS could bring. And they needed her to be accountable for a needless death.

Had she pushed her, the charge would have been murder, as if you intend to cause harm (but not kill) and the victim (accidentally) dies, you’d be charged as though you’d intended to kill them. So there clearly wasn’t enough evidence of a push.

Either way, it’s an awful case. AG shouldn’t have behaved so badly. And I wish the cyclist had just stopped in good time instead of swerving. Just horrible all round.

I've Googled. No news articles come up. Please provide links.

But that's just what I mean. It's a BBC report. Other report contradict and without having been there personally, who am I to say which is correct?

Same with the whole 'she pushed her' that some appear so certain about. Even the prosecution team didn't feel able to run with that one. The original trial showed there was no proof. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't but so many people are pushing it as fact with no meausre of proof behind it. It makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely interested in the reasoning. She was angry and aggressive because she didn't want Celia to be on the pavement. She shouted at her, swore at her, moved towards while swiping her arm at her. How does that not prove threatening behaviour? I would have felt alarmed and distressed in that situation (although I admit I'm always very scared of angry people).

The prosecution failed to identify the alleged unlawful act about which the jury needed to decide, and the judge didn't, or couldn't, put it right. I agree this was common assault, but the case was not correctly presented to the jury.

Common assault = when a person inflicts violence on someone else or makes them think they are going to be attacked. It does not have to involve physical violence. Threatening words or a raised fist is enough for the crime to have been committed provided the victim thinks that they are about to be attacked.

It's a two step process to prove unlawful act manslaughter and they omitted a step.

It is not clear that the cyclist did fear an attack but, even if she did, a conviction for assault requires the prosecution to show that the defendant had guilty intent. See my post at 17:02.

That’s fine but I disagree. I think screaming and waving your arms about as you block somebody’s path and swear at them is enough. It’s more that they couldn’t prove it I think rather than she definitely did nothing wrong. She’s vile in any event, RIP Celia.

She said it herself in the police interview that she left before emergency services got there

I am telling you what the law says. It is clearly set out in the judgement to which I linked earlier. By all means disagree with the law and campaign to get it changed. But don't say that screaming and waving your arms is enough. As the law stands, it is not.

Totally agree. Actions have consequences. People get prosecuted for dangerous driving in similar situations.

But her story has changed along the way at points. She's an unreliable witness - whether that's because she's an awful human being or because she is brain damaged that seems impossible to confirm.

Had the video footage been just 10 or 20cm to the right, then I think it would be clear that she pushed her. As it is, that can't be proven.

I don't think she can be exonerated.

To be honest, I don't know how anyone could watch that footage and think that she wasn't pushed? Besides the fact that she admitted pushing her, you see her slow to a stop as celia passes, her weight shifts in her legs, her arm comes up towards celia, then as celia shoulder was level with AG'S arm she suddenly swerves dramatically and can't save herself from going into the road, you can see the force of the push in AG left leg as it happens and see her arm come back down.. it's all there in the video.

the precurser to this was AG shouting 'GET OFF THE F*CKING PAVEMENT'.

Then she left to go shopping.

Of course she was pushed, Auriol Grey is a disgusting human being and should have served her measly sentence rather then cause Celia Ward's family even more pain and anguish.

Exactly! A 3 year prison sentence was madness imo. Everytime I researched the incident, I didn’t understand how she was the convicted of an offence

Celia Ward. The victim. The actual victim. The one that doesn't get a do over. The lady that so many posters are blaming for her own death. The death caused by a foul loud mouthed bully that thought she owned the SHARED pavement and pushed, by her own admission, Celia into the road to die then strolled off to stuff her face AND let's not forget LIED to the police about it. I hope the rest of her life is as miserable as she has made Celias family.