Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Auriol Grey's manslaughter sentence overturned for killing cyclist. Correct decision?

1000 replies

Locutus2000 · 08/05/2024 14:17

Reported in multiple outlets - BBC.

Mixed feelings - it was a complex case with no winners on any side.

Auriol Grey

Pedestrian Auriol Grey has Huntingdon cyclist death conviction overturned

A woman whose actions led to the death of a pensioner cycling on a pavement wins a court appeal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-68975335

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 08/05/2024 23:24

AngeloMysterioso · 08/05/2024 23:18

Fuck me, isn’t this just a masterclass in victim blaming.

At the end of the day it’s true though. Regardless of whether you call it victim blaming or not.

Auriol was a verbally abusive and mildly violent woman, we don’t know if Mrs Ward was blithely cycling on the shared path believing she had right of way, and behaving in a stubborn manner because of this.

TizerorFizz · 08/05/2024 23:27

This is not going to the Supreme Court and it's the law that matters here. Not what people think. It's been explained by the Court of Appeal why the appeal was allowed. No one here knows better than very experienced judges about the law and what needs to be considered. They can be "wrong" in very complex cases and law can have varying interpretations which is why we have a Supreme Court. This is not one of those cases.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 08/05/2024 23:28

oakleaffy · 08/05/2024 23:17

A cyclist CYCLES - She was legally allowed to cycle where she was without being assaulted verbally and threatened by a raving pedestrian.

Many older people ride bikes

Being shoved sideways by a heavy pedestrian will knock most lighter weight cyclists over.

There’s dispute as to whether it was a shared path or not. Cyclists are not generally allowed to cycle on pavements.

If an older person rides a bike on roads or pavements you’d expect them to know the Highway Code or have passed a Cycling Proficiency Test. If they’re deemed to be frail as DM article says then I wouldn’t say being frail makes you a safe road user as a cyclist.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 08/05/2024 23:29

TizerorFizz · 08/05/2024 23:27

This is not going to the Supreme Court and it's the law that matters here. Not what people think. It's been explained by the Court of Appeal why the appeal was allowed. No one here knows better than very experienced judges about the law and what needs to be considered. They can be "wrong" in very complex cases and law can have varying interpretations which is why we have a Supreme Court. This is not one of those cases.

And thank god for this!

ControlShiftDelete · 08/05/2024 23:30

I think the decision was wrong and it also sends out the wrong message.

oakleaffy · 08/05/2024 23:30

The interview with Grey....She lies .

''I can't remember''

''I can't remember''

Wretched woman clearly is heard swearing and her hand is on the cyclist.

sandyhappypeople · 08/05/2024 23:31

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 08/05/2024 23:24

At the end of the day it’s true though. Regardless of whether you call it victim blaming or not.

Auriol was a verbally abusive and mildly violent woman, we don’t know if Mrs Ward was blithely cycling on the shared path believing she had right of way, and behaving in a stubborn manner because of this.

I honestly don't see your point, probably because it doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is, there was room for both on the shared path, if AG just carried on walking they would have passed each other without incident. Instead she chose to gesticulate wildly while shouting at the woman to 'get off the fucking pavement' and then she made the woman get off the pavement, straight into the path of an oncoming car..

out of the two of them AG was the only one doing something wrong, so why blame the victim who was just going about her day?

Daisybuttercup12345 · 08/05/2024 23:32

Correct decision.

BIossomtoes · 08/05/2024 23:33

There’s dispute as to whether it was a shared path or not.

Not any more there isn’t. The correct signage is all in place. That road with its shared pavement has been in use since 1972 and this is the one and only incident of its kind in over 50 years.

RisingMist · 08/05/2024 23:33

I'm on the fence over this. Auriol Grey's disabilities may have meant that she wasn't able to predict the outcome of her own actions. However, I think her actions did seem malevolent (which her disabilities don't excuse) and they did contribute to someone's death. I'm not sure that she shouldn't be charged with something, even if manslaughter might have been a step too far. Perhaps common assault?

oakleaffy · 08/05/2024 23:34

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 08/05/2024 23:28

There’s dispute as to whether it was a shared path or not. Cyclists are not generally allowed to cycle on pavements.

If an older person rides a bike on roads or pavements you’d expect them to know the Highway Code or have passed a Cycling Proficiency Test. If they’re deemed to be frail as DM article says then I wouldn’t say being frail makes you a safe road user as a cyclist.

Being pushed sideways will make a lighter weight person fall.

Grey's hand made contact with the cyclist.

HangryOliveMentor · 08/05/2024 23:34

roaringmouse · 08/05/2024 23:03

If she did, then the conviction wouldn't have been overturned. If you read the judgement, the case is quite clear, and today's decision is the correct one.

The judgment says that AG’s actions contributed to CR’s death.

However, even if the jury had been properly instructed, they don’t see that the elements needed for a criminal conviction would be made out.

RisingMist · 08/05/2024 23:35

Also, there are lots of shared paths in Cambridge and anyone living there for while would be familiar with this. Most people give each other space and there aren't often serious problems.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/05/2024 23:36

roaringmouse · 08/05/2024 22:15

Not funny. Tragic all round. Nevertheless, AG did not cause the cyclist's death. Hence why the conviction has been overturned.

Incorrect - the case was overturned because a) the CPS failed to actually plead the relevant 'base offence' (here common assault); compounded by b) the judge failing also to mention this requirement when giving directions to the jury.

Further , the Court of Appeal held that Grey's actions contributed to Mrs Ward's death

oakleaffy · 08/05/2024 23:39

sandyhappypeople · 08/05/2024 23:31

I honestly don't see your point, probably because it doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is, there was room for both on the shared path, if AG just carried on walking they would have passed each other without incident. Instead she chose to gesticulate wildly while shouting at the woman to 'get off the fucking pavement' and then she made the woman get off the pavement, straight into the path of an oncoming car..

out of the two of them AG was the only one doing something wrong, so why blame the victim who was just going about her day?

Because people on here will victim blame- Especially if the aggressor is in any way 'ND'.

TizerorFizz · 08/05/2024 23:39

Most people are citing lots of views that are nothing to do with the case at the Court of Appeal. It’s a fruitless exercise. The Court is correct.

GasPanic · 08/05/2024 23:41

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/05/2024 23:36

Incorrect - the case was overturned because a) the CPS failed to actually plead the relevant 'base offence' (here common assault); compounded by b) the judge failing also to mention this requirement when giving directions to the jury.

Further , the Court of Appeal held that Grey's actions contributed to Mrs Ward's death

Can you explain why the appeal court judges did not allow a retrial ?

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/05/2024 23:41

SabreIsMyFave · 08/05/2024 23:23

Appeal Courts make mistakes sometimes. They have made one overturning this woman's conviction.

I think the mistake was at the Crown Court when the judge failed in his direction to mention the legal requirement for a (criminal) base offence to be made out and misdirected the jury. (And a poor prosecution by the CPS in failing to be explicit that the base offence was 'common

in the circumstances, I think the Court of Appeal had little choice but to declared the conviction for manslaughter "unsafe" and quash the conviction. It's perhaps unfortunate though that they did not permit a retrial as requested by the CPS

ReelingRoundtheFountain · 08/05/2024 23:41

All the people on this thread who are totally certain AG pushed Celia Ward....how? When if it was as obvious or clear as you all seem to think, it would have made a manslaughter conviction watertight?

I have read that she "shoved" her, pushed her, moved across the pavement to push her....were you there? It's not clear in the video, or it wouldn't be a contested point. You just believe that she did. You don't know.

It's the most crucial factor of this case and it absolutely is not clear at all. The interview I have seen AG says she may have made "vague contact" , clarified as "light", while waving her hands. I believe she later retracted that? Not "yes I pushed her".
It's not on video, and not in what AG says, so where are you all getting your conviction on this point from?

SwimmingSnake · 08/05/2024 23:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Saschka · 08/05/2024 23:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

This wasn’t AG’s first contact with the police for aggression towards random members of the public (she is very well known for it), I doubt it will be her last.

SwimmingSnake · 08/05/2024 23:48

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Freddie1964 · 08/05/2024 23:48

Since the trial the council have confirmed that the pavment was not a shared cycleway at the time of the accident or at any time before that. People may that thought that it was shared but they were wrong.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/05/2024 23:49

GasPanic · 08/05/2024 23:41

Can you explain why the appeal court judges did not allow a retrial ?

I'm afraid I don't know. The Court of Appeal judgment does not reference this as the application for a retrial occurred only after the judgement had been handed down...

HangryOliveMentor · 08/05/2024 23:49

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/05/2024 23:36

Incorrect - the case was overturned because a) the CPS failed to actually plead the relevant 'base offence' (here common assault); compounded by b) the judge failing also to mention this requirement when giving directions to the jury.

Further , the Court of Appeal held that Grey's actions contributed to Mrs Ward's death

The court of appeal did also say that they do not see how the jury could have found the elements of the offence to be made out, even if they were properly instructed.

I firmly believe that AG either pushed CR or swung for her, causing CR to swerve, but sadly I think the Court is right that the evidence was not strong enough to support the conviction.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread