...to expect students and parents to take my subject seriously?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Issue coming from another thread I posted, so thought I would ask for people's opinions.

I teach Religious Studies at a Catholic Secondary School. As it is my subject, I am clearly biased, but I believe that students learning about other religions and cultures is extremely important for their development and attitude towards the world and other people.

As it is a Catholic school, students must take RS at GCSE. Their first exam in it is tomorrow morning and some of them are still apathetic, telling me that parents have said not to bother trying as it isn't an important subject and it doesn't matter if they fail.

Obviously this leads to a battle in lesson which I cannot win as I do not have support from parents.

So parents - do you think RS is an important and relevant subject? If not, why not?

I don't for one minute think Teachers indoctrinate children, however I do feel a lot of Teachers try & sway children to their way of thinking, I'm not saying all do.
Why should a child be taught what other religions believe is right or wrong about abortion? That is such a personal topic that it's no one else business what others think or do. When religion comes in to play around terminations I feel it's all wrong as girls/women should do what's right for them & not conform to what's expected of them due to religious beliefs. This is why I feel teaching young children about religion can be dangerous as they're far to young to understand the whole concept of religion at a deeper level.

@Goodtogossip I also assume you don't approve of any fantasy novels being in school libraries.
Because it's all made up and doesn't have a practical purpose.

@Goodtogossip I think you're missing the point, and you're also wrong about 'teachers swaying students to their views' - we can't, it's against the Teacher Standards and we'd lose our jobs.

We don't teach children what is right or wrong - we teach what groups of people believe and leave it at that.

As for your point about abortion, religion is intertwined with 'difficult' topics - abortion, euthanasia, death, immigration, war - and learning about religion helps students to further understand important things they will experience in life.

@Goodtogossip if you look at countries like the USA at lot of the abortion and contraception laws are based on certain people's religious beliefs.
They are putting their view (and only their view) as a reason to ban or restrict.
Surely by learning different views can help make people understand that just because they believe something they cannot force that belief on someone else.

No not at all. As long as a child knows the story is fictional & isn't made to think otherwise, then reading a book all about a fantasy world can actually teach a child to use their imagination & encourage open speech about their own personal thoughts on the story & not be swayed to think along the lines of others.

@Goodtogossip discussing different religious/cultural beliefs can also develop their own personal thoughts.
A good teacher of RS will teach that any religious "stories" have been passed down orally and then eventually written down so that's essentially what they are - just stories to interpret.

Yes laws are based on peoples religious beliefs. does this not prove that by teaching RS studies in schools is wrong as those forcing the laws have been brainwashed from an early age to believe what they've been taught?
If they weren't taught about religion then I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't give a toss about what others decide to do in their lives but because they've been brought up with religion being forced on them at school they've chose to believe what they've heard by those they were told to respect, Teachers.

Why should a child be taught what other religions believe is right or wrong about abortion?

Because children should be taught critical thinking! And that means encountering a range of points of view, being able to discuss them rationally and arriving at an opinion of one's own. Like it or not, many people in the world and in those children's own communities are religious and have morals and views influenced by religion. Why wouldn't you want children to learn about this?

GCSE RE doesn’t teach faith though. It teaches the belief structures of each of the world religions and how they impact daily for choices. Whether they can be proven or not is a separate thing. All religions have current guidance of what is taught or preached in different religious settings. Each religion has its own set of scripture which dictates their beliefs. The exam isn’t graded on what’s true or can be proved but what they different religions believe to be true.

Personally I think it’s important if you’re sharing a classroom with people of other faiths to learn about them. To understand why some girls and women cover themselves, why some boys wear head pieces and don’t cut their hair, why some older children are fasting at certain times of the year etc. Equipping fellow students with this knowledge would hopefully lead to a more understanding culture.

As for other subjects which should be taught. True there are many. BSL is a big one but it shouldn’t replace RE. It should be a language choice. However the schools need to make sure they have the right people teaching BSL as there is a whole culture to also understand alongside the language if you want to learn in.

There are many things like life skills that should be taught as well. Each child will have their own background and what they want to do and options should be given. Maths should definitely be more explicitly about life maths - some of it is but the relevance isn’t always recognised by kids. It’s interesting how whatever GCSE options you take there will always be PE lessons until you finish y11. Some choose to do extra GCSE PE and will be examined on it but everyone does core PE without being examined. Same with PHSE or whatever it’s being sold as these days. I know my children don’t do that weekly but they have one day each half term as a ‘wellbeing’ day which is actually nothing to do with wellbeing in one respect but does cover the PHSE/RSE curriculum but again isn’t examined.

@Goodtogossip in the USA much of their religious learning comes from family and places of worship - not via schools.
What I meant is there are certain people who only know what they've been taught and are very ignorant about other faiths.
Very very ignorant.
They attempt to create laws based on what only they believe - sometimes not even accepting scientific facts.
It's what THEY believe and nothing else counts.
You can't have a society like that.
But religion isn't going away soon - so it's important to teach about it.
You can't attempt to change things if you don't know abouy those things in the first place.

I totally agree that children should be taught to be critical thinkers but not bring religion into it as it causes too much conflict. If for example a child was given a subject to discuss, then they should be encouraged to speak their own personal views & opinions & not be swayed into another way of thinking because of religious beliefs.

@Goodtogossip they are encouraged to do that. That's what most discussion lessons are all about.

This is not accurate. Education about various religions is woven into the history and geography curriculum. It doesn’t receive special consideration and its own course, but it is treated as part of the culture and history of each area studied.

@Ponderingwindow yes I know that in the USA they do teach about religion in schools.
I believe High Schools usually have it as a more in-depth subject as an option ("elective").
But for some reasons there is still a lot of ignorance.
No idea why.

I totally agree that children should be taught to be critical thinkers but not bring religion into it as it causes too much conflict. If for example a child was given a subject to discuss, then they should be encouraged to speak their own personal views & opinions & not be swayed into another way of thinking because of religious beliefs.

This makes no sense. Discussions about all kinds of matters (not just religion) can cause plenty of conflict. Are you suggesting that children who are religious should be banned from giving their views in a discussion? And do you really honestly think, for example, that a child raised in an atheist or Christian household who is studying in RS lessons what Muslims or Jews believe about certain things is going to be 'swayed' into adopting those religious views?!

Trying to shut a child away from other views and beliefs will not protect them from influence. It will just make them ignorant and more susceptible to influence when they leave school and are out in the real world.

Your point is not entirely clear here, I’m not sure which bit of my post you think is ironic. But you started by ascribing to me something I did not say.

I did not say it’s intolerant of our school system to teach about various different spiritual beliefs. I said I disagreed with it being compulsory the way it is. Because currently it is not a particularly broad look at religion and spiritual belief; it puts far more emphasis on religion than on other aspects of society that shape beliefs and culture; it does not look at how non-religious people think or, for instance, develop ethics; in primary schools it is often thought as truth rather “some people believe”; and it is allowed for schools to proselytize to students. I don’t think any of this should be the way schools teach about religion. I do think schools should cover religious beliefs in a factual way but think it needs tying into social studies, not taught as an island.

Your own nasty little bit at the end, digging at the way lots people have subverted Christian religious festivals to be joyous occasions that fit their own lives is itself ironic given:
a) The lack of respect most Christian’s show the religions they stole those festivals from. And
b) The lack of respect Cristians have shown people who are not Christian but are still subject to legal prohibitions pushed by the Cristian church intended to encourage them to go to church and follow the Christian calendar. Maybe to over compensate for the fact that people don’t actually believe as much the church wanted them to? Or maybe just because it’s natural to take advantage of power when you have it, just as it’s natural to take the bits you like from festivals and make the best of things.

My child is not at a religious school and we are atheists.

But it's mandatory for all kids to do RE GCSE. It's a massive, mixed comp in London. Over 40 languages spoken in the community.

I think it's a great idea! So important to understand where other people are coming from. They seem to teach it in a very philosophical way. DS likes it.

I think people who don't want to understand the rest of the world are fairly ignorant tbh.

To add... I'd never send my kids to a religious school where they are indoctrinated with a religion. But I'm very happy for them to learn that "some people believe this..." that's the world we live in. Why close your mind to it?

No, not at all. It is, without question, parental influences that are the strongest in terms of influencing children's religious beliefs.

Going back to the abortion argument, understanding why others may feel the way they do about abortion will provide people with the knowledge they need to more effectively counter those arguments which they consider to be wrong.

I do have to say that the extraordinary level of ignorance on this thread suggests that some sort of compulsory RE/plilosophy at school would be a good idea. At least then people might at least know the difference between atheisisn, humanism and secularism.....

I think yabu to expect everyone to be as passionate about a subject as you. When kids sit GCSE's they tend to know which ones they 'need' for the next step. Not all subjects are equal and yes my DC have worked harder to achieve a higher grade in a subject they want to continue if that means sacrificing the grade on a subject that's less important to them. Not saying it's not important at all or to others but for some kids this will be a subject to 'sacrifice' to focus on maths for example.

I guess part of your role is get them and their parents to understand the benefits of having another good grade GCSE on their CV and hopefully engage them in the subject matter so it does pique their interest. You can't win them all...

@CurlewKate I'm glad I'm not the only one astounded by the lack of ignorance on this thread!

Since @Goodtogossip seems to either not be able to understand or refuse to understand, children are taught what other faiths believe and how those beliefs impact their daily lives. I do not try and sway them to believe what I teach - I am not Catholic, that would be incredibly hypocritical!

And I'm laughing at your comment about children respecting teachers - come and spend a day with my teenagers, you'd change your mind about that!

@TeacherAnonymous123
Since @Goodtogossip seems to either not be able to understand or refuse to understand, children are taught what other faiths believe and how those beliefs impact their daily lives. I do not try and sway them to believe what I teach - I am not Catholic, that would be incredibly hypocritical!

You seem to think that pupils (and their parents) should form their view about RS GCSE based only on your approach in your class. But their exposure to RS will have been very different over the preceding years and their attitude will be formed by that experience far more than by what you claim about your class. They may also experience your class differently than you intend since it will be within the setting of a Catholic school that, at a guess, will have Catholic worship as part of the school day, skews the focus of the GCSE by setting what is covered in its favour, and may include a fair amount of indoctrination within the school’s day-to-day culture and interactions.

TBF, there are a lot of people whose children either currently study RE at GCSE or have studied in the last year or two, who are saying exactly the same as the OP. I guess if people choose to make decisions based on their experience from 20/30 years previous then that is their choice but it is very ignorant of them not to bother to do any research and to simply spout their outdated ideas like it's a universal truth.

Some people might even be able to spot the irony of people insisting that their made-up idea of modern RE lessons must be the truth, whilst simultaneously worrying that their children will be told that made-up things are the truth.

I wasn’t talking about parents’ experience of RE when they were in school. I’m talking about how 15 year olds today were taught religion in primary school (as I have said, my own teens were taught religious beliefs as facts in primary), about the inclusion of worship in school and the impact of an intentionally religious ethos throughout the school, and the skewing of the GCSE curriculum that OP says her school engages in and which she has no say over.