...to expect students and parents to take my subject seriously?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Issue coming from another thread I posted, so thought I would ask for people's opinions.

I teach Religious Studies at a Catholic Secondary School. As it is my subject, I am clearly biased, but I believe that students learning about other religions and cultures is extremely important for their development and attitude towards the world and other people.

As it is a Catholic school, students must take RS at GCSE. Their first exam in it is tomorrow morning and some of them are still apathetic, telling me that parents have said not to bother trying as it isn't an important subject and it doesn't matter if they fail.

Obviously this leads to a battle in lesson which I cannot win as I do not have support from parents.

So parents - do you think RS is an important and relevant subject? If not, why not?

Ok, I absolutely am wasting my time trying to explain the distinction. I don’t think you’re being deliberately obtuse but your lack of understanding is sort of like trying to explain this to my mother.

@ttcat37 to be fair I was struggling how to word what I meant 🙂
I know what I mean so I'm happy with that.
Have a good evening...I'm off to bed now 🙂

The problem here is parents, as is so often the way these days, actively encouraging their children to ignore what the teacher/school says.
Fine to have your opinions privately - although a bit odd here as presumably they knew the drill when applying to the school - but surely you pretend to your kids that it’s all important and explain to them the importance of different subjects and the need to try your best?

YANBU

Don't want your kids to have to take RS? Don't send your kids to a bloody religious school

I did RS at GCSE (first year the school offered it). As far as I remember it wasn't all about religion part of it was about morals and society

I really enjoyed it and got a B. But it was a choice for me.
Presumably parents and students know they will have to take RS at GCSE, if they don't want to do that they should go to a different school, not rubbish the whole subject.

Our school forces this subject for GCSE and yes I've bargained with my DS to do his best but to concentrate on his core subjects. I have also said it might be an easy one to do well on and bump up his results but he hates it as a subject and so did I when I did it.

And our school is the catchment school. We don't get the "send them to another school" choice. We're semi rural and that's the school end of.

Those parents chose to send their children to a church school!!!
Probably because it's a good school!... good because it's a Christian school, with Christian values!!
So therefore they have too accept and participate in Christian teaching and Christian worship! If they don't like it, they are free to go elsewhere!! ,🤗

My son is at a catholic school, it’s the best school in our area. He has taken his RE GSCE today. He also had an engineering exam. I absolutely told him his focus must be his engineering revision. He will never progress in a career with a pass in RE, but he will in engineering and other such STEM subjects. He wants a vocational job and does not have the slightest interest in RE.
Furthermore, I believe it’s good to be taught about different cultures, beliefs etc. but I don’t think he needs an exam on it and I don’t like it’s a forced option for him, and taking away another more valuable subject (IMO), but I respect I chose to enrol him in that school and he must therefore respect and follow the curriculum there.

I also say this as an FE teacher who teaches years 12 and 13. None of them have ever done anything with their RE GECE in relation to the students I teach; but the subject I teach they have gone on to become paramedics, midwives, nurses, working in a lab etc. I believe those are roles that bring something more positive, valuable and tangible to our society. Religion for me is the route of conflict and war. I also say this as a catholic. I understand for some though, that it’s a way of life and comfort etc. Different horses for courses and all that jazz. We can all have respectful differences.

It is not something I support, but I support my children’s education and value the school they attend. Part of this is they must do RE, but I certainly don’t make this a priority with our home revision.
I hope this helps you understand from a parental perspective. But I’m sure it’s tough for you especially if it’s a subject you’re passionate about.

And what if a religious school is the only state option open to them?

Not everyone can afford to go private/quit their job to home educate!

My son (13) loves RS even though he's not religious in the slightest - he says it's the only lesson where they're actually allowed to share their thoughts and opinions.

I absolutely think it’s important, one of the most important subjects. It’s intrinsically linked to history too - another important subject

Most of the world is steeped in religion and people’s faith informs their values and their culture. I truly believe if people want to ever get to know a person who’s a little different from them then religious studies is a good insight into that.

I did RS and did well. I have since found that I have so many friends of different faiths and having the knowledge of their faith without having to ask for it goes a long way.

But that depends on the curriculum. The OP has not said which one she teaches The version I did in O Level was just about RC doctrine. No discussion of moral dilemmas.

Comparing an exam you took before 1988 with the curriculum now is disingenuous. The national curriculum was introduced which changed every subject. RE has a locally agreed syllabus which reflects the faiths and cultures of the boough as well as follow the law on what must be taught. Admittedly academies don't have to follow their local syllabus, but since a council of local experts voluntarily write and support the syllabus it would have to be a poorly resourced syllabus for a school to reject all that free support

The OP has already confirmed that Catholicism is the primary focus of the curriculum, with Judaism as a secondary focus.

I am presuming OP's school is following the edexcel specification for RE, which has a Catholic Christianity paper, a Judaism paper and a philosophy and ethics paper. The religions are options chosen by the school, presumably for faith schools.
I'm not sure about the syllabuses in the lower years being set to reflect the area they live in ( unless that's what happens in London and larger cities) because in my local area, its overwhelmingly Christian, being a village outside a city, but in school they were taught all the major religions ( outside GCSE) I mistakenly looked at the AQA syllabus and it's broader, not narrower. I did GCSE RE 30 years ago and had to learn Marks Gospel. That's not what it is now. It's actually quite interesting while I was helping DS revise, and you do debate religious doctrine, and discuss atheistic beliefs in relation to religion, even outside the ethics paper.

OH and I are atheist. I find it frustrating that there continues to be a requirement for a collective act of worship in school. I think it’s good for kids to learn that many people follow one set of religious beliefs or another and the traditions that come with that. If the approach to religious education is similar to history where you can look at various viewpoints/accounts and you learn some critical assessment skills then great. If the approach is more learning a religion in any degree of depth or it being taught as if the tenets of that faith are fact I’d be unhappy.

I think that all state schools should be secular and religious education in the sense of learning the traditions of your own religion in depth should be something done as an extracurricular. I felt strongly enough about not wanting kids to go to a church school that we moved house from somewhere where every walkable primary was CofE or Catholic and the closest secondary by miles was Catholic to somewhere we were in catchment for a state primary in a learning trust that takes an approach we are more comfortable with. The kids visit a mosque, a cathedral, a gurdwara, a synagogue a Hindu temple and the local humanist society during their 5 years of first school. They also go to a local church for harvest festival. They have speakers from various religions who come in an run a weekly assembly and the other days they do a quiet reflection/meditation time, which is a bit of a fudge for the daily act of worship.

I’m ok with them following the rules while there as the school explain them in advance and discuss what kids think about them afterwards and generally encourage the idea it’s ok for them to form opinions about what the different religions believe and what rules they have. I’d follow them myself if I was visiting religious sites for historical/cultural interest. I appreciate they are important to the community that worship there however stupid I think some of them are. I would not however go beyond following whatever rules I was asked to adhere to. If there was no expectation to follow a rule as a non believer then I wouldn’t choose to.

When the girls are older if they’d prefer not to go on a trip due to a requirement to cover heads or be only allowed limited access vs boys in the class I’d support them opting out of it. I wouldn’t support them not following whatever rules were laid out for it and I’d encourage the school to have some debate about rules that result in different treatment for women, gay people, people of other religions etc.

I feel like religion is a tool that’s been used through human history to help retain the power and wealth of the few at the expense of the many. In the U.K. now it’s still used that way - “look at those nasty Muslim immigrants coming in and wanting to introduce their ways to Britain runs alongside look at all those useless benefit scroungers who don’t work hard enough to support themselves/those selfish “rich” people objecting to marginal tax rates up to 100% on their income. We can fix all these things if you just keep us in power”

I don’t really think it’s fair to say religion causes wars etc in and of itself. In the same way our government currently seems to work to create division in order to gain support I think the leadership of any nation have often exploited anything that unifies their own people against a group with a common difference to gain support for whatever military action they wish to take. That’s often been religion.

My main intolerance with religion is that it’s so dogmatic. If a religious person takes from their faith the position that abortion or homosexuality or sex outside marriage or making jokes about god is fundamentally wrong then there is rarely room for debate or compromise. I think it’s seen as if those beliefs should be more respected because they are founded in religion. Really though are they any more important than other beliefs to the person holding them?

Just as a really low level simple example from my childhood. Jewellery was banned at school but there was an exception for people to wear a cross as it was important as part of their religion. Out of school I always wore a necklace my grandmother gave me when she was very ill and knew she was dying to remember her. As a teenager, having recently lost her it has a huge significance to me and it bothered me that I couldn’t wear it but Christian’s would wear a cross. I believed at the time that necklace kept my grandmother with me while I was grieving but because my belief was a personal one vs one tied to religion it didn’t count.

@DramaLlamaBangBang

I think AQA do one as well, but only two papers.

@glammymommy

RC doctrine hasn't changed much. I cannot see an RC school allowing discussion of the ethics of something like abortion. If I'm wrong then that would actually please me.

Rude. I understand perfectly what you've written.

The RE syllabus might be mainly focused upon Christianity but the school is an RC school - the parents signed up for this when they enrolled.

Why do people think RS teachers that objectively there’s a god? It teaches education about other religions

I insisted all exams were taken seriously. Dd chose RE at GCSE and again at A level and now is studying sciences at Uni. It's a very interesting and important to know about other religions in this day and age.

@DramaLlamaBangBang
The GCSE syllabus requires students to consider a variety of opinions, so if they want to pass, the students need to consider the reasons why the RC Church disapproves of abortion and also reasons why others (religious and secular) do not disapprove. If the student wants a good pass they have to evaluate those reasons. So even in an RC school, pros and cons need to be taught. Whether the students retain that information is up to them. RC schools study Judaism as the non-Christian paper, and there are a variety of views regarding abortion in Judaism which the students need to know. So yes, whilst the students need to be taught the reasons for the prohibitions on abortion for Catholicism they also need to be taught reasons to allow it. And even within Catholicism the Doctrine of Double Effect applies

Not a secondary focus, it's the other (non-Christian) paper. It's equal to the Christian paper. I have issues with RC schools having to do Judaism as the other paper but those are irrelevant to this point.

My children grew up (my and partner's choice of location) where we could choose not to have them taught in school about religion other than in history, English (and other languages) etc. No RE, RS or any of that BS.

Result? They see religion for what it is: historically, culturally important, yes, but nevertheless essentially silly. "How could anyone believe that stuff about the evil snake?" ... "What's this Allah stone they walk round in circles about?" ... "People kill each other about these crazy fairy stories?!"

Oh, and - I dare claim - my children are decent, moral people whose care for others derives from their humanity and intelligence rather than being based on foolish superstition.

"Take your subject seriously", @TeacherAnonymous123? -To do so is to see how clearly ridiculous religion is. Do you teach that?

(Or, for example, as a teacher in a Catholic school, do you try to give credence ("... some people really believe ...") to things like the "Real Presence" and outdated Aristotelian metaphysics of substance and accident without pointing up what sheer nonsense all that Catholic guff is?)