...to expect students and parents to take my subject seriously?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Issue coming from another thread I posted, so thought I would ask for people's opinions.

I teach Religious Studies at a Catholic Secondary School. As it is my subject, I am clearly biased, but I believe that students learning about other religions and cultures is extremely important for their development and attitude towards the world and other people.

As it is a Catholic school, students must take RS at GCSE. Their first exam in it is tomorrow morning and some of them are still apathetic, telling me that parents have said not to bother trying as it isn't an important subject and it doesn't matter if they fail.

Obviously this leads to a battle in lesson which I cannot win as I do not have support from parents.

So parents - do you think RS is an important and relevant subject? If not, why not?

The OP states:

For those asking, the GCSE course is Catholic focused with their second religion being Judaism.

That sounds very much like Judaism is a secondary focus to me, but I accept that this may be down to the way in which the curriculum is delivered in the school itself rather than the structure of the actual GCSE.

Either way, it's extremely narrow.

@vawodoc the way you describe how your child think about religion is pretty much how it is taught in RE lessons.
"This is X. They believe Y"
No one is expected to believe it - unless they want too.

No. In RE lessons, children are not specifically taught how ridiculous religious beliefs are.

They may decide that for themselves. But that's a different matter.

Really, there's no need for RE in schools, as evidenced by my children's - and their peers' - lives. It's just a historical anomaly of UK - a throwback.

And, I'm suggesting, if the OP were really to "take her subject seriously", she should teach her pupils that.

@vawodoc but that's your opinion that religious beliefs are ridiculous.
Other people will think differently.
By teaching the basic facts in schools it would hopefully make people understand why some people believe what they do.

I see no real reason why understanding the basic tenets of Judaism is more important than understanding the basic tenets of phenomenology or existentialism.

@AuxArmesCitoyens who says it's more important?
Why not learn both?

@vawodoc ,

A lot of people choose religious schools because of their good ethics and behaviour, but want to discard the religious bit after their children get in. As I used to inform pupils at the religious school that I taught at, schools are package deals and they don’t need to believe to enjoy some singing and quiet time in church (I am a secular Jew so have zero skin in the game).

As for no ‘need’ of RE, it is hard to show that any humanities are a ‘need’ at all or even education beyond vocational skills.

I do find it curious about how proselytising atheists go on about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, all the while popping into Holland and Barrett to pick up their vitamins and buying ‘clinically proven’ anti aging serums for their skin.

@Needmorelego so many people on this thread have said how important it is to have a basic understanding of religion to understand the world. None have said how important it is to have a basic understanding of philosophical constructs. My point is that all the arguments applied to religion could equally apply to philosophy, but OP doesn't seem to think that is important at all. Which indicates that religion isn't important at all either, since entire countries have the barest grounding on it and still get on fine.

I don't think it matters which other religion is chosen but the school, it is important I think to learn about another religion whatever that might be.

@vawodoc I am not teaching children what they have to believe. I say 'this is a Catholic belief. You do not have to believe in it'. Same as I do for Judaism, as well as Atheism and Humanism.

It is your opinion that religious belief is 'ridiculous' (just FYI, religion is a Protected Characteristic).

Learning about the beliefs is important for tolerance and respect, especially in a growing cultural and diverse society.

That's why I teach my subject, not to 'indoctrinate' children. I teach at a Catholic school - I'm not Catholic and disagree with most of the Catholic dogma!!

@AuxArmesCitoyens ,

A large part of RS/RE is philosophy, especially at A level.

As many have pointed it, an RS GCSE isn’t like a seminary (or equivalent), it is contextualising beliefs in relation to the modern world. You need a good understanding of philosophy to do that effectively.

Obviously there are better and worse syllabuses and better and worse teachers but, if taught well, it encourages curiosity and tolerance.

~@AuxArmesCitoyens I never said philosophical constructs aren't important, but they're not on the GCSE. Classical philosophers like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates aren't even on the A Level spec most of the time, which does greatly irritate me! Unfortunately, I am bound by the exam spec my school chooses, as well as the diocesan rules around teaching RE.

I would love to teach about lesser known religions, ethics and morals, philosophy, paganism, spiritualism and anything else you can think of! But this is a wider issue about curriculum and teaching to the exam in KS4 and what the Catholic Church deems important to be taught in their schools.

Yes, OP specifically asked for people's opinions. And, yes, that's mine.

(I hope you're not one of those who thinks along the lines of "all opinions are equal". (That can't be true, can it?))

I think my opinion correct (as do you: that's in the nature of 'opinion'). And I have reasons to back it up. For example: will anyone try to gainsay my opinion that transubstantiation - taught as a belief though it may be - is a complete and utter obvious nonsense based on an outdated metaphysics and only held to for spurious historically anomalous reasons?

Does OP teach that in her Catholic school? In my opinion she should if she is to "take her subject seriously". Do you disagree? What's your opinion? What reasons do you have to back it up?

There's no need to be so defensive and aggressive in your tone.

Yes, I teach that Catholics believe in transubstanstiation. I do not tell students if I think its real, not real, ridiculous, or whatever, as it's not my place to judge other people's religious beliefs. I tell students they have to know what Catholics believe, but they don't have to agree with it.

@AuxArmesCitoyens I agree with you - it's important to learn both.
I think learning the "basics" of the various world religions and cultures should be "done" by the end of Year 9 (so a decade in school).
Then at GCSE it should be optional to study in-depth Religious Studies but compulsory to learn morals and ethics etc (which most schools do under the PHSE umbrella).
But then that would bring it back to the OPs point about "taking it seriously".
Parents would complain if a Ethics etc class was a non exam subject because it means "one less GCSE taking up timetable time" so schools would make it an exam subject but parents would then quite probably say exactly what the OP is saying - " oh that's not important focus on your Maths/English/Science or whatever".
We (society) need to decide if everything taught at school should be for the purpose of getting a GCSE out of it - or the purpose of having knowledge.

Teaching the basic facts teaches the what not the why.

@vawodoc if you're interested my opinion is this....
I don't believe in God.
I am fascinated by people who have faith and frequently wonder what makes them have that faith.
I like stories - Biblical ones or Greek mythology ones or traditional ones passed down through oral storytelling. They're stories to me but I often like the "message" a story will have.
I like the familiarity of festivals and cultural events - following the seasons and celebrating certain things at certain times of the year gives me something to plan and look forward to - essentially a purpose to keep going in life.
So that's me 🙂

@Needmorelego ,

That is a good post. It kind of goes back to my posts about thinking about the actual purpose of education and what you want child to be taught.

I have to say I think a lot of parents aren’t honest with themselves about this.

They always talk of happiness, curiosity, well rounded children etc etc and, come parents evening, at least 80% of the time, the only thing parents want to discuss is how can Flossy get from an 8 to a 9! And, if you mention that maybe an 8 isn’t so bad and it would be better focusing on enjoying and understanding the actual subject, rather than how to answer a 5 marker, you get met with complete incomprehension.

@Rutlandwater yes the "why" is the hard bit.

What are the ‘facts’ though? (Apart from things like Christmas Day in Christianity lands on the 25th December) are there any?

OP, you say that learning about different beliefs is important for tolerance and respect in a diverse society. But these are children who are attending a Catholic school, following a curriculum that focuses heavily on Catholicism. How exactly is that teaching them to respect diversity?

Sure, some of the kids won't actually be Catholic but they will already be exposed to lots of Catholic influences by virtue of the school that they are attending. Why not choose a different religion as the main focus so that they really start to understand and respect different points of view?

And sure, they learn about Judaism as a second faith... one that is closely linked to Christianity. Why not learn about something completely different?

As you clearly feel that respect for diversity is important, are you lobbying the school to select a more diverse syllabus?

Learning about the beliefs is important for tolerance and respect, especially in a growing cultural and diverse society.

I've never really understood this point of view. Like I said in a previous post, I didn't have much RE education at school and as an adult I have the utmost respect for others, religious or not and I've never done or said anything that would be construed as intolerant. I will always adhere to faith rules when visiting a church or temple, covering up or removing shoes, and I ask my DCs to do the same. Tolerance and respect are just part of being a decent human being, and I don't think you need a GCSE in RE to be this way. Fine to learn up about other religions till end of year 9 but it's the compulsory to GCSE level that most people object to and the reality is, the other subjects are more relevant to their future studies OP, so not difficult to understand why they would not prioritise RE revision, even for those who want to do well in all subjects.

@willWillSmithsmith the facts are things like....
Christians believe in God. They follow a book called the Bible. They worship in churches.
Muslims believe in God but they usually call him Allah. They worship in Mosques. Their book is called the Koran.
Etc.
None of that is saying it's "true".

@DataColour how did you learn the "rules" about what to do in a church or temple?
Someone must have taught you - so why can't that be taught in a school?

I'd have no patience with this at a Catholic school. It's clear from the outset that GCSE RE is compulsory so choose a different school if you don't want this. I think there may be quite wide ranging syllabuses as the one I did was very heavily about St Marks gospel and not much else so not very useful. A programme that covers more of the world religions and builds understanding of beliefs morals and ethics is worthwhile to any students and develops skills used in other subjects like English and history etc. I also strongly disagree with undermining the teachers.