Is your household contributing net tax ?

[Pingufireengine]

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

Please try to explain the political process whereby pensioners will tolerate this happening to them?

Pensioners today have significant electoral power. Pensioners in the future will have significant political power.

You are being paranoid.

Or maybe everyone should have to grow their own food, make their own clothes, sweep their own streets etc etc etc. Without all the low-paid workers (whether at home or abroad) growing crops, rearing livestock, processing the output, moving it around the supply chain and putting it on the shelves in Waitrose, the better off would be too busy just subsisting to have time for their elite careers. Their success, whether they care to admit it or not, is entirely dependent on the sweat and toil of all the low earning riffraff so many of them clearly view with contempt.

@CaliGurl If you want a pension in future - and if you are rational you would, life would be really very shit without them - the best way to protect it for yourself is to protect it for everyone.

Once you start chipping away at it, you will open the floodgates and it will be swept away for all.

How old are you? What a stupid comment

Quite frankly I'm starting to think collective farms might just be preferable. It would be an excellent attitude adjustment

This is the problem, with people needing to pay for housing etc then the level would need to be approx 18000 pa now with 54 million adults that's a lot of money.

What about children? Do they get 50% or what figure.

Would it then be a massive incentive for migration if they level of free money was high.

I have long ago liked the idea of UBI and now as early retired it would be great but I know it could never work

I agree with you @qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty

And the sense of entitlement is astonishing! Owning four gas guzzling vehicles and then complaining about paying tax on them.

She already said she's 54 dummy

@Pingufireengine do you have any figures for what constitutes household net tax?

I.e. household gross income of £85,000 for a family with 2 x adults plus 2 x under 18s?

Or is it £85,000 for a family with only 2 adults?

There are so many variables. I note a PP mentions a gross salary of over £40k but if there is one person in a family earning that and they have 4 children their use of the state will be different from a one person family on the same salary with 1 child or 2 or 10!

I think my family is a net contributor but am not sure.

I come from a FSM family.

As much as I want a generous pension the inverted population pyramid will make it impossible to have on such generous terms as the current population.
Fair enough to say that a 'pension' payable to everyone on principle exists. But how much, at what age... Well that's another question.

Nothing so worthwhile as medicine! It’s really not that much for the fields we are in.

We are definitely net contributors and completely agree with all of this.

I wouldn’t be happy at all to pay more tax as an individual unless the loopholes allowing big businesses to avoid paying taxes while raking in massive profits were closed.

Why are you so rich?

Which brings us back to taxing the robots!

If you look at this logically, we either support pensioners or leave them to die on the street. I don't think the second option is going to be an electoral success.

I'm not wealthy but I am a net contributor. I don't have a problem with that at all, I may well be a net dependent when older due to pension/health care etc.

I benefit from a functioning society, and I want there to be more than a basic safety net for people who are not as lucky as me to have had a good education and a career now.

I was actually being facetious. Sorry if you misunderstood my comment😊

Family should have first responsibility even when deoendent disabled children become dependent adults. A civilised society will provide some support but the primary responsibility should be the parents. The same for partners and spouses. In sickness and in health...

Primary responsibility does sit with parents, or adult children (in the case of infirm parents. Have you tried to get any kind of support for people with disabilities? The burden absolutely rests with family, until they can do no more.

We can’t however, place that responsibility on family without recognising their capacity to earn and provide for themselves and their families is more often than not extremely compromised. That capacity may ebb and flow over the course but they can’t both care full time for a loved one and work full time - which is where the State does need to step in.

Too many people in wider society want to have their cake and eat it too - want families carrying the bulk of caring responsibilities and also grudge them benefits that enable them to do so.

That's not how it works. It's cloud cuckoo land.

I'm definitely not 54😱

Wrong. Other benefits aren't triple locked - so why should the state pension be?
Also, one could argue that there are many others who don't work and can never work like severely disabled people... They don't get a similar payment.
The final part of the argument is, of course, unlike your dramatic statement many pensioners are not 'dying on the street'. They're enjoying life, spending, going on cruises etc, the state pension isn't even necessary for them.

Personally if I was set for my retirement I wouldn't mind receiving a smaller amount of pension. Even though I didn't really need it. You know, just to acknowledge that I'd contributed and was getting something back.

In any case, we don't pay our own pensions. But that of the generation above us. Not sure where my pension would come from given the projected population decline and that even now, so many young people don't work anyway.

It’s all irrelevant really. We can’t afford a state where the majority are net dependents. The rest of it is white noise. The IMF have raised serious concerns about it. The next government will have to address the issues that cause it. It’s that simple. To answer your op - yes by a long way.

The way UBI systems work though is that those earning pay more tax so effectively it cancels out the value of the UBi. But that is hellishly complicated to administer particularly for those with fluctuating income.

If you set UBI at a decent amount so people aren't poor ( which I assume is the point ). How long before many people don't bother working?

Some will work of course as they are the ones working now to better themselves but once a few people in the street stop working it them becomes catching as evident by workless households and areas.

Thank you!

From the Institute of Fiscal Studies:

The top 10% of taxpayers paid 60% of all income tax in 2023–24, up from 35% in 1978–79. The share of income tax revenue contributed by the top 1% of taxpayers rose from 11% in 1978–79 to 29% in 2023–24.