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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is your household contributing net tax ?

414 replies

Pingufireengine · 05/05/2024 06:18

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

OP posts:
Whostoleallthemorals · 07/05/2024 18:17

MistressoftheDarkSide · 07/05/2024 18:02

Well, you're just a peach, aren't you?

Peaches bruise easily, don't they? Given how quickly you resorted to threats, you are the only peach in this exchange!

I could have reported you, but I would prefer people to see you for exactly who you are...

MistressoftheDarkSide · 07/05/2024 18:20

Whostoleallthemorals · 07/05/2024 18:17

Peaches bruise easily, don't they? Given how quickly you resorted to threats, you are the only peach in this exchange!

I could have reported you, but I would prefer people to see you for exactly who you are...

Oh please report away. I know exactly who I am and it is not a sanctimonious bean counter with no care for the welfare and safety of my elderly parents which is being actively blocked by a system so bureaucratic it's dangerous.

I think who you are is far more obvious.

FuckOffTom · 07/05/2024 18:35

Meadowfinch · 05/05/2024 07:44

I am a net contributor as far as I can tell.

Long-term single mum from a free school meals family
Salary - £60k ish
Child in independent school (with scholarship)
Paid higher rate tax for 30 years
One birth, one other op, treatment for BC.
Never been on benefits
Only been to A&E twice I can remember
I have a degree from a poly.
Started work at 13
Have always worked full time,
Have 43 years NI paid.

I don't begrudge a penny to the disabled, to the NHS, to primary/secondary education. I'm probably the 'squeezed middle' but I don't mind. I don't want children going hungry or pensioners dying of cold. Contribution is an essential part of a decent society.

I do mind those claiming 'anxiety' is an illness. Do they imagine being made redundant 7 times (in 38 years) with no safety net wasn't anxiety-inducing? Being made redundant again at 58 (covid) and fighting for months to get back into a decent job wasn't a struggle? Being diagnosed with BC as a lone mum didn't make me ill with worry? Keeping working while undergoing chemo didn't cause me issues?

I don't respect people who give up so easily. Who feel they are entitled to live off others. Of the people who waste hundreds every month and then say they can't afford a deposit. Who get drunk, fall down stairs and then complain about the wait in A&E. Who take drugs and then wonder why they have mental health issues.

Personal responsibility is also essential for a decent society and a lot of people seem to forget that.

This!

Neveralonewithaclone · 07/05/2024 18:35

Whostoleallthemorals · 07/05/2024 11:56

Parents of disabled children who grow up become disabled adults should care for them or contribute to their care costs if they have to go in a home. I accept that Partners and Spouses are different because their relationship is different to that of a parent and child. If a person becomes disabled during a relationship and has assets then their share of the joint assets should go towards their care much like the elderly if they have to go into a a home. The financial burden falls onto the state when their assets reduce to a an agreed level. Family first, state second.

There is no one magic bullet which will make money go further. There is a limit to how much the very wealthy will tolerate before they go elsewhere. Just ask the French. Is grouping those with more than you into one homogenous group and calling them selfish tax dodgers any better than people on benefits being grouped together as lazy scroungers?

You cannot expect to have a sensible conversation on the subject of benefits and only talk about tax avoidance and wealth. It's pointless unless you also discuss benefit cheats and waste in the system. Maybe it would be easier to provide more support for carers if absent parents actually had to contribute to their children, or the government didn't waste billions, Track and Trace springs to or if there were rent caps in certain places or we focused more effectively on prevention.

Many carers on these threads have shown as much contempt for others as they claim is shown to them.

Edited

What's wrong with you? Honestly why would you penalise parents of disabled children even further? Have you no compassion at all?

Scarletttulips · 07/05/2024 19:08

Honestly why would you penalise parents of disabled children even further? Have you no compassion at all?

The majority of parents with disabled children give up their careers to support their child, they are probably one of the poorest sectors. Usually ends the marriage, The other children suffer too.

Good luck getting any money out of them when they eventually try and rebuild their careers - because most don’t or are invisible.

Willyoujustbequiet · 07/05/2024 19:08

MistressoftheDarkSide · 07/05/2024 18:20

Oh please report away. I know exactly who I am and it is not a sanctimonious bean counter with no care for the welfare and safety of my elderly parents which is being actively blocked by a system so bureaucratic it's dangerous.

I think who you are is far more obvious.

I think Mumsnet are now also very aware of the kind of person whostoleallthemorals is as they've deleted their repugnant post.

Such an apt username!

Whostoleallthemorals · 07/05/2024 19:17

Neveralonewithaclone · 07/05/2024 18:35

What's wrong with you? Honestly why would you penalise parents of disabled children even further? Have you no compassion at all?

I have compassion and empathy, I am just not a fan of ill thought out short term strategies (v. popular in election years), robbing Peter (other services) to pay Paul, unstainable solutions, waste or ignoring prevention strategies. I am not against tax rises but only as part of joined up strategy.

I am definitely not here for diversion tactics...

tridento · 07/05/2024 19:22

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 07:18

They're determined to shout about how every penny of their millions is so well deserved. Being a supermarket worker is every bit as hard as being a banker.

I don't know many supermarket workers who work 14 hour days and work through the night and weekends if on a deal.
The pay is of course incomparable and I'm not making any other comparisons between the two but as for your comment, let's not pretend doing a shift in a supermarket is as stressful as a day as a banker or corporate lawyer.

Charlie2121 · 07/05/2024 19:36

frankentall · 07/05/2024 13:24

It's a rigged market though, not pure capitalism. Bankers are only paid so much because they run the system that way. Same with CEOs - they love to talk up a load of shit about how demanding the job is etc but 90% of people could and would do it and probably at least as well, they just didn't go to the right schools and oxbridge so they won't get a chance.

That is complete nonsense and shows a remarkable lack of insight into such roles.

I think people in normal jobs would be horrified if they knew what such roles entailed.

Charlie2121 · 07/05/2024 19:47

Neveralonewithaclone · 05/05/2024 07:18

They're determined to shout about how every penny of their millions is so well deserved. Being a supermarket worker is every bit as hard as being a banker.

You can’t genuinely believe this can you?

141mum · 07/05/2024 19:56

Panicmode1 · 05/05/2024 07:01

Corporations need to pay more...it's not right that eg bricks and mortar retailers pay significantly more tax than say Amazon, Google and Meta who cream billions out of the economies of the countries they operate in but pay risible amounts of tax.

We need to tax individuals less and taper benefits, so there is more incentive to work, rather than face punitive sanctions if you go £1 over the limits.

We need more people working - and feeling able and well enough to work, but we need huge investment in mental health support to tackle the epidemic of anxiety and depression....which is caused by the hopelessness of the housing situation, low wages, poor public services, decline in the state of everything.....but there's no money...so round we go again!

We are definitely net contributors...I was 😳 when I saw how much PAYE tax DH paid last year...so I feel significantly less guilty about having 4 children...😉

So agree with all you have said

Scintella · 08/05/2024 00:54

Charlie2121 · 07/05/2024 19:47

You can’t genuinely believe this can you?

Bankers have a choice I would imagine - prob a degree, prob intelligent, and lots of money for the hard work they choose to do -I doubt that applies to supermarket workers.

my DH had a v well paid demanding job, long hours, responsibility - he loved it (workaholic in some ways)

TheDefiant · 08/05/2024 18:17

@StormingNorman this statement of yours should be shouted from the rooftops!

In work benefits are not a benefit to the individual, they are benefits to the employer whose profits are being propped up by state handouts.

Not enough people realise this.

User6874356 · 06/09/2024 16:20

TheDefiant · 08/05/2024 18:17

@StormingNorman this statement of yours should be shouted from the rooftops!

In work benefits are not a benefit to the individual, they are benefits to the employer whose profits are being propped up by state handouts.

Not enough people realise this.

Yet someone working full time on the nmw with no children would not be entitled to uc. So isn’t it their choices to work part time or have children they can’t afford that is being subsidized? Nothing to do with the employer.

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