Is your household contributing net tax ?

[Pingufireengine]

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

Pensioners pay tax on their income including their pension - not sure people realise that.

In reality, we only have a short period of time when anyone who worked in a coal mine in the UK will be alive. Possibly a bad example I’d you are projecting for the future.

The 16 hour obligation no longer exists.

What is the point of this post exactly?

It is not really about 'fairness' IMO. It is about the fact that they are angry and dissatisfied with their own lives.

The comment your neighbour made about find me a £30k job was probably just stupid bravado. The vast majority of people want to work, as the government never tires of telling us, work is a source of self-esteem.

You have never used the NHS, received a state education?

To let entitled nasty rich people know that we see them.

@Neveralonewithaclone Do you have an issue with admin workers? 😁

Without administrators, nothing would ever get finished.

Food wouldn't be bought from the wholesalers or arrive when needed in the shops
Patients would never receive notification of appointments
999 calls would never be answered.
Children would never be admitted to schools or be vaccinated against disease.
No-one would ever travel, preventing trade.
The internet wouldn't work, leaving us all much the poorer.
There would be no money in cashpoints and the payments system would collapse in seconds.

Maybe rethink your disdain for the humble administrator !

Anxiety is an illness. My partner had anxiety, it was truly awful. He had a panic attack every time he tried to go to work. He had to leave his job, and we never got a single penny in benefits for the 2 years he couldn’t work because I earned £100/month over the threshold. We would have been better off if I worked less.

It was a system change designed to reduce MC support for the welfare state.

The welfare state has been under strategic attack since 2010, IMO.

We have been consistently told that WE get nothing but THEY get lots.

The problem with your vision is that it considers 'the poor' and 'the rich' as static state of being.

Many wealthier started low and could very well never have become wealthier. Most got there through working FT all their working lives and going for promotions.

Its all well to suggest taxing them more and more but if you take incentives, and less face it, financial comfort is a bit one, you reduce the number of people wishing to take on those bog jobs.

We are already seeing this with doctors. Massive crisis with so many leaving the profession because of financial cut. Of course many thinks so what, others will come in, but that's not how it works. What happens is that those who are left gave to take on the gap left by those going. More work, more pressure, more concluding that it's not worth it and leaving....and you get the vicious circle the NHS is now facing.

Economy is so much more complex than the average mner can even start to comprehend. We need more specialised economists in politics.

Define rich, £x amount in the bank? £x amount in private pension? House worth £x amount? Or doing it the other way how would you decide who is worthy of a state pension?

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes, N/A
Birth/delivery £3000-10000, N/A
Post Delivery Care, N/A
Health Visitors, N/A
Statutory Maternity Leave, N/A
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year, N/A
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18 couldn’t get an NHS dentist
Child benefit until 16-20 N/A
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per N/A
Free School Milk £30-40 N/A
Free school meals: £400-500 N/A
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

The N/A count for both us and our two children.

I am an admin worker. My point is that we're putting in the same amount of 'effort' as bankers.

I am not wealthy but I don’t like the idea of UBI, if this was the case I want to quit my job have my student loan wiped and work in a supermarket. No way would I do my job with the extra hours and stress for the same money I could earn doing a less skilled job.

Yes, I would take state pensions away from rich people who are retired
Leading to fewer and fewer 'rich' to pay in...

I had my child at 38, i paid tax hefty from 22 to 38 without taking barely of the any things you listed OP, as did my husband (from 18), and we continue to pay hefty tax now alongside having one child, and would be happy to pay more tax if the government increased tax rates, so no I'm not going to have any sleepless nights that I'm not contributing enough whilst putting our child through state funded schooling. We are doing all we can to pay into society and as I say we are socialist minded in that we'd willingly pay more tax if required. If I'd not had my child and the majority of my tax was going on less fortunate people health or wealth wise or less able bodied people that would make me happy, surely that is the point. What a muddled and clearly divisive post OP. Not sure what your point is. Jog on!

I am an admin worker. My point is that we're putting in the same amount of 'effort' as bankers
Maybe, but the level of pressure, stress and mental demand will be nowhere near.

If this is true then why are the government grappling with the amount of 50plus people dropping out of the workforce? The people I am close to that can afford to finish say we only have one life why should I spend it working.

We have just sold our businesses and are looking around for a nice early retirement place, Portugal looks good at the mo.

I'm going to say £3m all included.

In Australia you don’t get state pension if you have over a certain amount.
A homeowning couple can have half a million dollars a non homeowner $700,000

i got those figures from google so happy to be corrected.
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/assets-test-for-age-pension?context=22526#a1

Interesting.

IMO it isn’t about the amount of benefits being paid out (a convenient scapegoat maybe!) but that people don’t feel their quality of life is very good.

If you are both working full time and feel that you thought you’d have a nicer house, better car, afford more holidays, have more savings, be able to retire etc etc.

The middle classes in the UK have taken a hammering - I think a lot of people’s expectations are not being met re: living standards.

Why do you hate the idea of UBI if you would be a recipient of it?

Is it because you fear everyone will stop working?

Why do people think that paying less tax on income would encourage people to work more, but receiving a small amount of funds from the state would make people work less?

I think this probably misunderstands what the bankers job involves.

It also doesn’t take into account VAT which most people forget about. Everybody is actually a tax payer when you take that into account.