Is your household contributing net tax ?

[Pingufireengine]

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

I do not like the term 'politics of envy' as it is designed to shut down debate.

I accept that young people are facing great difficulties.

But removing the state pension is not the answer. You will remove the state pension in future from young people too and reduce political support for NI overall.

@qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty Im not saying they should be doing that but it will happen.

im an older millennial but have paid contributions since I was 17 as I worked around school/uni. The contributions were meagre back then anyway which is often overlooked in the “I paid for it”.

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads..

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:...

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

So your answer is to shift blame in part to the children? Because they are in good company with the government and tax avoiders?

As other posters have commented.
The cost of education etc is the child's own benefit/ cost. They grow up and pay taxes.

YABVVU and guilty of what you say others posters are doing on other threads about Carers.

DH had a lot of very expensive cancer treatment and we are now gearing up for expensive fertility treatment so it will be a very long time, if ever, before we are breaking even tax wise.

On the other hand we both do badly paid Useful Jobs - if we were all expected to be net contributors everyone's taxes would either need to pay me more or do without my skills in the public sector. I'm pretty good at my job and could definitely earn more in the private sector; I don't feel bad because I know you're getting a bargain having me do the work I do for such miserable pay.

But removing the state pension is not the answer. You will remove the state pension in future from young people too and reduce political support for NI overall.

where have I said it’s the answer? I said state pension age has moved out despite no increase in healthy life expectancy.

There’s always a bonkers thread on a Sunday 😂

So you start a thread by objecting to the vilification of disabled people, but then go on to vilify parents for being a drain on the country's coffers.....

talk about double standards!

There’s also the big issue that up coming generations won’t be approaching old age in owned homes mortgage free/with low mortgages

With a new name at the top of it.

I am a bit shocked that 55-60% people aren't taxpayers.- Do you mean adults?
I have 4 DC- DH pays higher rate tax , I pay lower rate. Between us we pay a lot of tax- we stopped being able to claim child benefit when youngest was about 2 and rules changed. I was at home at the time so no child tax credit, childcare vouchers etc but they all had between 12- 16 hours free child care- term time only from either age of 3 or 4- whichever rules were at the time. DC now all teens or young adults. 1 is now a tax payer, 2 at uni , 1 at school.
They will all contribute to society/ pay tax for future pensioners etc.
But when my child benefit was taken away and we were survivng on 1 salary just over threshold I did get a bit bolshy about pensioners free bus passes/ TV licences/ winter fuel payments not being means tested!
But people with disabilities and their family carers deserve our support. Ultimately their carers save the country a lot of money.

This is the problem right to buy was supposed to help with.

The flaw in the plan was not building replacement social housing

And yet pension age is moving out for younger people & will move out further
Younger people now are more likely to have an occupational pension. It might very well be that next generation will see the state pension go with only something like pension credit available in the same way UC is.

Hopefully that will mean a large sum available for redistribution towards the NHS, Education and Social care.

Apols, I mixed you up with the person I was replying to earlier

We all contribute to society together.
People who earn high salaries need someone to produce food, supply them with power and utilities and build their homes - just to meet their basic needs.

So the net tax debate is meaningless.

Just realised I missed the word NET!
Having children benefits society longer term, future tax payers, surgeons, builders, teachers etc so I don't think having DC is a drain on society quite the opposite

Younger people now are more likely to have an occupational pension.

because of auto enrolment? Private pensions are crap for most these days. I’m lucky to have a government one but it used to be amazing, unfortunately the scheme changed whilst I was at uni.

I don’t think younger people are going to have better private pensions so therefore it’s ok to move out state pensions.

Is the current situation working for those who are poor?

There’s also the shrinking tax paying base, in the 60s you had 1 pensioner to 5 workers, it’s about 1 to 3 now & forecasts predict 1 to 2 isn’t too far. It’s one reason why immigration will never stop, we need it.

I don’t think younger people are going to have better private pensions so therefore it’s ok to move out state pensions
Of course they will if they start contributing reasonably at an early age. Certainly to receive to the level of the state pension.

Not vilifying parents. Vilifying people who look down on and other the less haves and reminding them that they also are likely to be a cost to the state.

Most people aren't calling Carers scroungers. The responsibility should fall on family first, state second. With the exception of child carers, those carers who say they are doing the government a favour by looking after family members are no different to dads who say they are doing their partner a favour by babysitting.

*So funny that wealthy folk are quick to shut down any conversations around UBI🤣

They are frightened it might actually have a chance of helping the economy and making poorer people less poor. But we can't have that. No. Keep the poor in their place.*

The thing with UBI is that everything will increase in price, because everyone starts with X amount, so can afford higher rent, utilities etc. And UBI would take the place of UC and other benefits, so people who are struggling on UC would still be struggling. The assumption that UBI could be introduced and everything else stay the same is unreasonable.

Probably not but UBI wouldn't work for the whole country.

The studies that have been done said that the behaviour of the participants didn't change as far as going to work so the pilot was deemed a success.

I feel this is wrong as the participants knew it was limited time study so they wouldn't alter their behaviour too much. As we are now seeing with the middle aged workers it takes time to alter the behaviour but once altered I do not feel they will be going back.

@vivainsomnia so their wages need to stretch to rent/saving for house deposit, paying off any education costs & saving for a decent pension. Unrealistic against a backdrop of low wages.

I am a net contributor. Additional rate tax payer, DC in private school, private health and dentist etc. We are even private landlords (boo hiss!!!).
One of the major drags on the economy in my view is the lack of social housing. People in insecure expensive housing are not able to make longer term plans like taking a training role which might pay less but offer longer term progression or build up rainy day savings.
I think removing state pensions from high tax payers risks exposing it for the Ponzi scheme it is. My NI contributions are paying current pensions not going into a pot for my future. It’s a social contract, the working generation fund the pensions of the generation before. Undermine that at your peril.