Is your household contributing net tax ?

[Pingufireengine]

Following on from the awful disabled people are a drain on society threads...

For those that have children, have you considered this?

Roughly 55-60% of all households aren't net contributors to tax.

That's not to say the households that don't make a net contribution are in receipt of benefits.

Having children entails the following:

(This is per child)

Maternity care on NHS/midwifes,
Birth/delivery £3000-10000,
Post Delivery Care,
Health Visitors,
Statutory Maternity Leave,
Free prescriptions during pregnancy and after birth for 1 year,
Child gets free eye tests, glasses, prescriptions, dentist until 16/18
Child benefit until 16-20
Free nursery hours £2000-7000 per
Free School Milk £30-40
Free school meals: £400-500
School is £7,690 per
Sixth form/college/higher education £4,843

Student loans for university £30,000-50,000+

Yes the loans are paid back, but the initial offset is footed by taxpayers. And around 27% of full-time undergraduates starting in 2022/23 will repay them in full. They forecast that after the 2022 reforms this would increase to 61% among new students from 2023/24.

So instead of looking to blame those who are disabled for being a drain, look elsewhere, and better yet, instead of the disabled, pensioners, the working poor...we should look towards those are govern us, avoid tax.

The UK pension is the lowest in Europe, our wages are low and have stagnanted, working rights and conditions have eroded.

The UK looks asset rich, but it's only a small number who are generating huge wealth for themselves. There are parts of the UK poorer than the poorest parts of Poland. In fact, Poland is predicted to be wealthier per person than the UK in just a few years.

Maternity care is awful, the NHS is broken and on its knees, social care is non existent.

We've had austerity for 14 years, then Brexit, then COVID. Our country is in desperate need of investment into our creeking infrastructure.

What you don't seem to realise is that many baby boomers have no pension other than the state pension. Nothing at all. The 'gold-plated' pension is a myth for the majority of boomers.

Where did I infer every baby boomer had a private pension? I said many schemes are less generous today than they were in the past eg public sector ones. Are you disagreeing with that?

So those starting work today, contributing even 5% + 3% employer+ tax relief will be hugely better off.

I disagree todays youngsters will be better off than todays pensioners, housing costs are a different ball game today.

That raises an interesting point of what people are legally entitled to and what is morally right. Lots of people on MN are proud of not making even a small provision for their old age/other services because they are entitled to the State picking up the tab. Morality vs entitlement is an issue across all wealth classes.

The people contributing net tax aren't all richer people swanning about in expensive cars with huge houses.

who do people think are the “rich”? Are net contributors the rich?

Literally the only benefit we get personally are the NHS prescription pre-payment certificates for £9.99 a month as we each have multiple prescriptions a month. However, we make a point of buying any additional pain meds etc ourselves rather than rinse the certificates for all they’re worth.

with 300k income I think you should be rinsing the certificates tbh!

That raises an interesting point of what people are legally entitled to and what is morally right. Lots of people on MN are proud of not making even a small provision for their old age/other services because they are entitled to the State picking up the tab. Morality vs entitlement is an issue across all wealth classes.

You often see on here people saying they will spend everything so if they do need care the state will pick up the tab because “the boat people” get it free or whatever. I find it a strange attitude tbh.

Obviously some military expenditure is essential, people could argue it’s also essential that some taxpayer money going towards MP expenses and banking and the other things I mentioned. My issue is with the amount of funding going to these things, along with other areas which don’t align with my morals, ethics and politics. I wouldn’t want my taxes to be raised if it meant more money going to the military, my feeling is our military spending is already way above what is necessary. Obviously others are free to disagree, just as people disagree on how much taxes should fund free healthcare and benefits etc. I was just outlining my view, and in my view the current UK military model is outdated and wastes an unnecessary amount of taxpayer money that could be spent elsewhere.

A lot less than 1% then. If you listen to the people who bang on about benefits fraud you'd think it was more like 50%.

Tax avoidance is a much bigger problem.

Or obesity, alcohol, diabetes? It's a slippery slope

The people who avoid tax.. like Rishi's wife... want people to focus on the undeserving poor/benefit scroungers. They also own newspapers, media outlets ect so shift focus and blame off themselves onto the least able to defend themselves

They don’t. Tobacco revenue now exceeds the cost of treating smoking related diseases. Smokers are in profit, especially now they can no longer buy tobacco in bulk from Spain or Italy on a day trip.

Such a cliché.

The people who avoid tax.. like Rishi's wife...

it’s perfectly legal though. Lots of people reduce their tax burden eg paying more into a pension, reducing inheritance tax etc

plus I thought Rishis wife is now paying tax that she doesn’t need too?

If we're going to go down this road, how about the billions that smokers cost the NHS?
Dont smokers pay a load of money to smoke?

ASH - Action on Smoking and Health disagree with you. https//ash.org.uk/media-centre/news/press-releases/new-figures-show-smoking-costs-billions-more-than-tobacco-taxes-as-consultation-on-creating-a-smokefree-generation-closes

Full break down of the costs of smoking to England
Total cost to England = £49.2 bn made up of:
Productivity costs = £32.0 bn

• Smoking related lost earnings = £9.3 bn
• Smoking related unemployment = £7.3 bn
• Smoking related early deaths = £1.8 bn
• Reduced GVA due to expenditure on tobacco = £13.6 bn

Healthcare costs = £1.9 bn Social care costs = £15.0 bn

• Cost of domiciliary care = £644.3 m
• Cost of residential care= £588.1 m
• Cost of informal care by family & friends= £8.4 bn
• Cost of unmet care need= £5.4 bn

Fire costs = £328.1M

• Cost of deaths due to smoking attributable fires = £137.2 m
• Cost of injuries due to smoking attributable fires = £84.4 m
• Cost of property damage due to smoking attributable fires= £98.2M
• Annual cost to fire and rescue services due to smoking attributable fires = £8.3 m

Yes. £15 a packet now apparently. Most of which is tax. Thank God I gave up - over £100 a week! 😱

They would, wouldn’t they? I might believe a less blatantly biased source.

How do cliches emerge? Because they're heard all the time.

Spongers aren't they?

I am not in a 300k household.

Completely agree on the strange attitude though. It makes no sense. Just think where that money could be spent.

It doesn't make them true though. Nor does it advance the discussion.

Whether you agree with their figures or not. The revenue from smoking is unlikely to cover the cost of smoking. The cost is not just the cost of treating them in hospital.

Tobacco duties are levied on purchases of cigarettes, hand-rolled tobacco, cigars and other forms of tobacco. In 2024-25 we estimate that tobacco duties will raise £8.8 billion. This represents 0.8 per cent of all receipts and is equivalent to 0.3 per cent of national income, and £302 per household.

The cost of smoking to the National Health Service in England is estimated to be £2.5 billion a year and the government is determined to cut this expenditure.

What’s happening to the other £6.3 billion?

I don’t think anyone who thinks in terms of an annual income from their labour is rich these days.

Rich is when your money earns more than you do. Asset wealth is the only thing you can rely on.

Yes because because the Government has no interest in how it presents its 'facts' either.

The problem is that some people don’t want to work and they see no reason why they should.
It’s been like this for years. How do you weed out the chancers without penalising the genuine?