to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

I don't think that's how it works sadly. They'll always think they can get around the the law. They're wrong of course, but it's not the deterrent it is to most people. For myriad reasons

I remember that.

I felt so sad for the elderly man who was not only bullied in his own home as a victim of the original crime but continuously bullied.

There seems to be a lot of pack mentality surrounding those who commit crimes which probably adds to their feelings of invincibility and courage to commit it.

I would vote for your third option. We don’t know where the burglars were when they were shot. Whether they were actually in the farmhouse or in an outbuilding or on the yard. That would make a difference, if the farmer went to look for them with his gun and then shot them, rather than coming across them in his house.

We thankfully live in the UK not the US.

Third option for me too. It’s genuinely scary to see the leap to judgement on this thread.

I think if you're in someone's home uninvited you get what you deserve.. If they were elsewhere not being thieving little twats, they'd be fine now. Fuck around and find out.

That Henry Vincent case was a real eye opener, that the mum felt victims should just step back and put up with the bullying and intimidation her son was meeting out in their homes. The sense of entitlement, that she and her family should be able to waltz into the homes of elderly people and help themselves, with no repercussions or risks was shocking. And clearly the prevailing view in the extended community.

Good on the farmer. I have no sympathy for the scumbags who broke in.

There’s a gofundme page for the farmer’s legal
costs

Refreshing, tbh.

People shouldn’t believe everything they read on X and MN. This is how most people think.

100% team farmer here, however he could be in trouble because shotguns are supposed to be securely locked away. I find it a little hard to believe that upon waking up he was able to find his keys in the dark, unlock the gun cabinet, take out a gun, load it and then shoot someone in under a minute. That minute could be critical in a court case, a) why didn't he let the burglers know he was awake, why didn't he call the police before shooting them? Difficult questions.

However I am 100% backing him on this one, 3 armed people break in to a house and are met with equal or greater force by one person defending his family - give the chap a medal.

According to the Guardian, the man arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder isn’t the farm owner. Which throws new light on the argument that he has a right to defend his property…

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/02/police-arrest-suspect-over-double-shooting-in-whaley-bridge-burglary

I think there is a deeper discussion to be had here, but I don't what the answers are.

While a shortage of police is in part down to funding issues, it's also that a lot of police time seems to be spent on pen-pushing not actual policing.

Then you have the issue that a lack of respect for other people goes right back to the home when the child is small. The child goes to school and is disciplined and the parents come in and raise hell about Little Tommy being kept in at break, it's not fair, he was led astray, he has special needs (he hasn't, he's just never met a boundary before). The school backs off because if the parents raise a complaint it gets taken all the way with county and burns up lots of staff time and energy and tolerance. I know this, because I used to work in a school and I've seen it happen. So Little Tommy gets out of the other end of primary school knowing he can get away with ripping other kids' books, mouthing off at the TA, hitting other kids and so on. He goes to secondary school and the pattern repeats.

By this time he has no respect for anyone, no concept that rules apply to him, and no qualifications. Off he trots to a life of crime. If he's a rural lad he knows where the farms are, and that farmers are spread thin. Bingo.

Also, the man has been bailed now. So no charges yet.

How can he be bailed if no charges have been brought?

He could be a tenant farmer. Lots of farmers aren't actually the owners of the farms they live and work on, even if they've been there donkeys years.

He may not have been the farm owner, my father in law didn’t “own” his farm but he lived in the farmhouse and ran that farm for 30 years. His wife and 3 children lived in that farmhouse with him, it was their home until the day he retired in all but name and every single thing in there was his property. I’m sure if faced with three intruders with weapons in his home he would have done the same.

I assume it’s much like people who rent - do they not have the right to defend themselves and their property just because they don’t own the house? That’s a genuine question by the way, I am interested to know how that works.

I am fully with the farmer on this one.

https://www.stuartmillersolicitors.co.uk/bail-but-not-charged-definition/#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20released%20on,for%20a%20variety%20of%20reasons.

I meant more that the focus on the grooming of children and young people and seeing them as victims as well as perpetrators has become more of a focus. That feels like it wasn’t such a focus before county lines. But I’m pontificating on things I don’t know much about!

I'm finding this thread quite disturbing tbh. Sounds like Britain is becoming more and more like the American deep south. Obviously people should have the right to defend themselves in their home but Jesus. So many people saying they deserved to die and such without even knowing the facts. It's quite scary.

Thanks. I’m obviously out of date!

You can be bailed pending further inquiries.

It really is. Deep South or Wild West more like.

It’s really easy in that context, if you have a gun to hand, that you could get scared and over react. I can imagine being so scared and adrenalised I could do things I wouldn’t ordinarily.

DH and I recently stayed in a remote lodge in Scotland and were alarmed one night when a car came up to the property at 3am (literally miles from anywhere), before stopping for a few mins then turning and going away again. At the time DH grabbed a kitchen knife and we locked ourselves in the bedroom. We realised how defenceless we were.

i feel sorry for the farmer and his family. They should never have been in this position.