to ask your thoughts on this? Fatal shooting during burglary

[itsjustataste]

Happened near me very recently and our community seems very torn with lots of people slinging insults at both sides. Lots of people shouting about playing stupid games, win stupid prizes etc... whilst others calling the shooter a murderer.

I find it very sad that someone so young has ultimately lost their life and has got mixed up in this sort of thing.

BUT that being said, I don't have any ill feeling toward the farmer either and cannot say that I wouldn't do the same if faced with 3 people breaking into my home, especially if I had my children in the house.

The other 2 suspects arrested for aggravated burglary meaning a weapon was involved and there had been a break in at the same home the night previously too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-68942085.amp

But you don’t know they are there to rob you, people have been raped and murdered in their homes. How do you establish the burglars are benign burglars and not worse?

This reminds me of this case -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/henry-vincent-inquest-death-stabbing-burglar-richard-osborn-brooks-london-a8896651.html

-His mother, Rose Lee, told the hearing: “Why couldn’t that gentleman have just stepped back like a normal person would have?” 🤷🏼‍♀️

It’s important to remember that the farmer has not been charged, and there is a good chance that the CPS will decide not to. After all they seem happy to drop cases which are completely clear cut with bags of evidence.

I have lots of sympathy for the farmer.

2nd burglary in 12hrs, 3 men, middle of the night, a weapon (from ‘aggravated’) involved on their part….poor chap.

Tragic that anyone lost their life but I can understand why it could have happened.

I'm delighted the burglar is dead, I couldn't care less about him or his skanky family. I'd happily shoot any crinimal myself.

Team Farmer. Without a doubt.
We live rurally, there is a baseball bat placed in a handy, but hidden spot on the upstairs landing. We’ve another under the bed…plus 3 big dogs. The police are at least 20min away, if they turn up at all.
If we had a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself and my kids.

Who remembers the terrible persecution that Tony Martin suffered?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TonyMartinn_(farmer)

He had been plagued by vermin coming on to his land to budge him and finally lost it and shot one of the scumbags.

And what about this poor chap who was terrified his wife would be hurt? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6984581/amp/Henry-Vincent-sister-denies-violent-person-tells-inquest-no-one-deserves-die.html

Every time a scumbag is offed by a victim it is a wonderful thing as it saves us money from incarcerating the evil wrong doer.

They can’t decide not to. He’s killed someone. You can’t have more evidence than a dead body.

There is plenty of rural deprivation - no need to assume "middle class" just because rural.
Not sure about the racism aspect. White urban young people get involved in this stuff too - it just depends on the particular town or city as to whether the deprived population are white or not. Certainly in Liverpool drug dealing among teenagers is not restricted to black kids.

I don't think there is a stick of furniture or material possession that is worth a human life. Nor do I think being killed is a proportionate punishment for burglary.

the robbers clearly values other people’s possessions over their own life, there’s always a chance something could go wrong when you’re entering someone else’s property FAFO

They can decide not to charge, but I suspect it is unlikely.

They are rightly holding him and questioning him while they decide if there are charges to answer.

When you say some locals have sympathy with the burglars, why? Guess it’s the bleeding heart tribe bleating about cost of living driving people to crime, and that this poor youngster might have had a crap upbringing and mental health issues. I’m team farmer, 100%.

I also have 'picture hanging' kit next to my bed at all times, also on the advice of a police friend.

When I was 15 my parents went out for the evening, I woke thinking that there was an earthquake as the window above my head was shaking. As I lay there I realised that it was a rhythmic banging.

I got up and looked down towards the back door (my bedroom window was above it) and saw a man banging one of our garden ornaments onto a chisel, trying to get through the back door.

I banged on the glass, hoping to spook him. My blood ran cold when he looked up, smiled at me and went back to slamming the door with increased urgency to get in.

I was lucky, my slightly older teenage neighbour also woke up and came charging round with his brothers and a replica samurai sword. That was enough to spook him.

But I've never forgotten his smile, and I've never been able to sleep anywhere alone since.

@StellaGibson2022 I was thinking of that case too. An elderly gentleman whose house was broken in to by a traveller. Wasn’t he hounded afterwards by the extended family? He wasn’t charged iirc.

I think lessons in school on consequences need to be taught.

You break into someone’s house whilst armed and intending to steal
Do you

A. Expect to be made welcome and owner hands you everything you want

or

B . Owner has bigger weapons than yours so expect to be killed or injured

Unfortunately the fact that the family are kicking off at the farmer suggests the reason why this person got killed in the first place.
They were never taught people will fight back and they could end up dead because of their actions.

He shot the burglar in the back as he was running away. That is not “reasonable force”.

There are plenty of people like these burglars (with the same broken moral compass) in the community so by defending burglars' disgusting actions, those people also defend themselves.

What are the chances they were after the Farmers Guns? A lot of Farmers have one. My FIL is a Farmer & burglaries are rife - Livestock, equipment & Vehicles. Nothing is Safe. Including the Farmers, serves the Burglar right.

I think legally, you’re allowed to defend yourself like with like, so if the burglars were carrying weapons, specifically firearms, then the farmer could escape charges.

Kids have always been groomed and exploited into criminal gangs. It just used to be mainly kids of colour from inner city areas. Just pondering.

It goes back long before that. Oliver Twist is a testament to that.

@Annndwhyshouldicare @Kianai omg your stories of what you experienced. 😩

That is fucking horrifying. I’m so sorry that happened to you. It doesn’t bear thinking about what might have happened had your neighbours not been there.

Thanks for posting OP, I've felt incredibly sad for a couple of days. I know of the family, I live the Whaley end of Eccles Rd. Three days ago Rob must have been just getting on with his life in our beautiful part of the country and now his life is upside down because of 3 lazy dickheads.

The one that died was a DJ in Chapel and the pub has put all these condolences up and eulogies from family and friends on FB....I don't get it, why are they so public about grieving a criminal sket who has ruined so many people's lives?

Then that should be the defence in court, not a reason not to charge.

But a dead body with a weapon could be considered self defence