AIBU to consider sleep training my five month old?

[user666555]

Hello,

I've been thinking about sleep training my five month old. I know the guidance is from six months but I'm honestly struggling more and more each day.

My daughter fights her sleep SO much. 9/10 times she will cry/fight her naps/night sleep. Every nap is a battle. She only naps 30-45 minutes at a time (unless I go out with her in the pram but this isn't do-able every single day). I have to rock her to sleep in her pram/bedside crib. She wakes up with the slightest noise and is so difficult to put to/keep asleep.

I've started considering sleep training as I'm not sure what else I can do. DP works long hours so I'm with her all day and she still wakes up around 3+ times a night too. I think the problem is she can't seem to self soothe (again controversial at her age) but it's really impacting me. I feel knackered. My whole body hurts (from feeling overtired and not rested) my relationship with DP is pretty much non existent as when he does get in from work the slightest noise will wake her. I also feel drained from the day of trying to get her to nap that when he does come home I just feel angry and moody all the time. I really do not know what else to do.

AIBU? Should I just suck it up? If I'm not being unreasonable, any tips on how to sleep train her (in a gentle yet effective way) please?

Thanks

I never tried to get mine to nap so if you are battling that no wonder you are shattered. Just because the book says they should nap doesn't mean they do babies aren't one size fits all they are all different just like people. Nobody sleeps the same pattern as everyone else do they? That is just something you have to accept.

I know nothing about sleep training but think if you can't get her to nap how are you going to train her to sleep?

The first few years are knackering loads of broken sleep but it does get better at some point. Just have to accept it. I mean you knew babies often meant sleepless nights before you decided to have one didn't you?

Any reason why going out in tram every single day isn't an option? I went through phases of doing this.

Easy for me to say though my kids are 8 and 10 it is all a hazy memory now.

So I'm in the YABU and suck it up camp.

You do what you think is best. Good luck

Also at 5 months 35 min naps were totally normal. Closer to a year old when they start having long 1/2 hour naps

For me she's still too little for sleep training and her sleeping sounds normal for her age. I Co slept, that's the only way I could get enough sleep myself. I figured that's the natural way throughout history. Did research on safety. Worked for us.

Why are you forcing her to nap? Pick your battles. They do what they need to do.

Do you have a set daily routine? If not I’d start getting into one now. Obviously your baby will dictate this routine some what as she is so young but if you try tostick to a basic routine it will help.

Wake up at the same time each day, milk at set times, if she will only nap in the pram then get yourself out for 45 mins in the morning and 45 mins in the afternoon. Take a waterproof jacket, rain cover for the pram, stick your headphones in and listen to music/podcast and just walk. It will be good for your mental and physical health and also will help her to nap.

Have a set bedtime routine, bath, story, milk and bed time in a dark room.

I'm okay with the short naps. It's just that I spend more time putting her down for a nap than she does actually sleeping. She needs the naps as she's tired and I can tell. It's fine that she has shorter ones. I suppose it's developmentally normal for her age but it's the fact that every nap/sleep is a battle to get her to sleep. She cries in tiredness and fights it.

I'm putting her down for a nap because she's tired. She cries hysterically as she needs ti sleep. I'm not doing it because I want to but it's because I can tell she's tired (yawning, rubbing her eyes, etc)

I’m so sorry you’re struggling, sleep deprivation is an absolute killer 💐
But a couple of things stand out to me in your post. 30-45 minute naps are the norm for a baby of this age, not unusual or a problem to be solved. 3 wakes a night is also actually pretty good for a 5 month old. You’re describing a normal baby. Sleep changes a lot in the first year, it’s not linear bad sleep to good sleep, there’s lots of ups and downs as they develop and go through growth spurts. It might help you to learn a bit more about normal baby sleep as a lot of coping with it comes down to our mindset around it.

Sleep training really doesn’t work, at any age. The most recent meta analysis showed sleep trained babies sleep no more than 45 minutes longer than non sleep trained babies (and this is an average across all ages up to 2 years so there’s other factors involved) and they still wake at night, because it’s developmentally normal to do so. A baby can’t be taught to self soothe, this simply isn’t scientific, they don’t have the brain development to do so until around 3-4 years old at a minimum. You can’t teach that. They will learn to link sleep cycles when they’re ready, it can’t be taught. Sleep is a biological function of the body, and you can definitely build in good habits and some routine to support good sleep, but you can’t train a baby out of normal waking that’s developmentally appropriate.

Id look at strategies to work with what you’ve got. If baby is fighting sleep for more than 10 minutes, they’re not tired enough to sleep, stop trying. 30 minute naps are normal. Could you try and safely cosleep at night, many babies sleep better this way? Could your husband take baby for the evening and/or in the morning so you can get some extra sleep then? If baby settles by being rocked dad could help with that too so it’s not all you?

I'd hold on for another couple of weeks if you can, but ultimately, you know best.

Hi @user666555 . Sorry to hear you are struggling! Just a couple of questions - How long is your DD awake before putting her down for a nap? I also have a 5 month old DD and she still has a wake window of between 1 hour 30 to 2 hours and I keep an eye on the clock and put her down for her nap as soon as I see her tired signs (rubbing eyes). Otherwise if she gets overtired she will scream and fight sleep, so just wondering if this is happening with your SD. Also, do you have white noise playing for nap times and nighttime sleep?

Sorry I'd like to reiterate that it's fine that she has short naps as it's normal for her age but it's the fact that her going down for a nap takes longer than her actual nap itself. That's why I mentioned that.

Whenever I do put her down for a nap I know she needs the sleep as she displays all the classic 'sleepy cues' and just cries constantly until she falls asleep no matter what we do.

We do have a routine but it's not set in stone. It can slightly vary. However judging by this post it may be worth incorporating at least one walk in our daily routine.

@Fleur240 I think you may have a point. I've noticed that if it goes past 1:45 ish from her last wake window that's when she's the most hardest to put down. 1.5 hours she'll still try and fight it a bit but can generally get her to drift off easier than if I leave it to the 2 hour mark

Which study is this? Sorry but it’s a load of rubbish! Of course babies can learn to put themselves to sleep - all of mine and thousands more have! I think ‘sleeping through the night’ is a controversial statement as no one sleeps through the night. Babies will still stir/wake briefly post sleep training but where they normally would rely on feeding/rocking/patting etc sleep training teaches them they don’t need these aids to fall back to sleep. They can reposition and go back to sleep themselves like we do. Really not sure which study this is but it’s deeply flawed if it’s claiming sleep training only gives babies an extra 45 mins sleep, that’s total rubbish!

Is there a reason you can’t go out for a walk with the pram everyday? I have a 4 month old and he sleeps for ages if we go for a nice long walk. Good sleep during the day actually helps him to sleep better at night too.

@Inmydreams88 to be honest it's the fact I'm drained. But again, it's probably best if I do go on a walk and that way she gets a better sleep so I don't have to try and battle as much. She's a CMPA baby (under control now through milk and medication) so I feel like the first few months of her life have been a blur of constant rocking/cryinf/walking around with her. She would cry ALL day. I feel like I've not recovered from that. Also recently moved and again, feel drained but perhaps the walks will make my life easier with less battling for her naps

Sorry to hear you’re struggling OP, it really is unbelievably rough when you have a very non compliant baby! It sounds like baby is getting over tired/stimulated or is perhaps reliant on you rocking them which is totally normal so don’t worry! I know it’s so hard but I would advise you push through this next month and if things are still bad then sleep train when baby is 6 month. Best advice I can give is hire a sleep consultant. I have had the same consultant for all 3 of mine and she is amazing.

You could try co sleeping as that seems to work for so many people, for my third and most recent baby it made things ten times worse and he was up every 30 mins screaming wanting to be rocked. It was hell tbh! But definitely worth a try.

Sorry forget to mention co sleeping doesn't work. If anything she's worse. Any small noise I make will wake her up. She's a very light sleeper

When mine were that age they had 2 naps per day - each lasting 1.5 hrs. They woke up twice at night for a feed and generally fell back asleep immediately after. We did a combination of strict nap routine and co-slept at night, when they’d wake for a night feed about twice. It helped a lot because anyone could put them down for a nap and I could rest/do other stuff for a good 3 hrs during the day. We avoided naps in pram because couldn’t do it everyday and instead focused on a tight nap routine (time, sleep sack, blackout blinds, noise machine, feed immediately before etc.).

At 8 months we properly sleep trained both DC. Our sleep consultant said she’d trained babies as young as 3 months and if I’d known this was possible I’d have done it too. Both DC are very good sleepers now and sleep a solid 10-11 hrs per night (age 3 and 5) unless sick.

Short answer is: do whatever is necessary to maintain your sanity. Good luck!

@user666555 I’d definitely try and get her down before that 1.5 hour mark for all naps then and see if it helps. Mine is also a very light sleeper and I find playing white noise helps, as it blocks out other sounds. I play it for all naps and at night. I really do hope it gets better for you… it’s hard!

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it 'rubbish'.

The sleep trained babies still woke and had raised cortisol levels.

Anyway long term studies so far haven't found any difference in outcomes either positive or negative for sleep trained vs non sleep trained babies.

@Okaythenboss my daughters had five naps today. She sleeps 30-45 minutes wakes up okay, after 1.5 - 2 hrs starts getting unsettled, rubbing her eyes, yawning etc. Feels like a constant cycle 🙈

What method did your sleep consultant use?

@Fleur240 is such a short wake window normal for her age? She is a 37 weeker however still classed as full-term.

I do use white noise for all naps and night sleep but she still stirs a lot. Not sure why.

Every babies different. I'd stop fighting and follow her lead xx

I'm going through very similar at the min, also with a 5mo who is sometimes up every hour and dealing with the mood swings of his threenager brother as well during the day - this mat leave has been a whole different ball game to my first (as my eldest was at least a very good sleeper even from early on)!

I'm just telling myself it's just a phase, and experimenting with different routines to see if anything sticks, also trying not to obsess about naps but it's so hard, sending solidarity. Sleep deprivation is the worst.