To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

Things present differently for example a toddler has a tantrum is different from a toddler with a meltdown. To the untrained eye they can look similar but as any psych will tell you they are different in implication. An ASD tantrum is dangerously as the child is not connected to the surroundings and unaware of anything - they are not seeking a reaction - they have no control . So in that scenario they are at grave risk of injury. A mother dealing with that is going to be a lot more flustered than another mother dealing with a tantrum - and needs a break!

As an example when little my son had a different sweatshirt in for school that he perceived as breaking the rules - different emblem . He went into full flight mode across a park that had 3 roads intersecting - his concern about rule breaking caused this huge meltdown - I even dropped my handbag and everything else to catch him. That was 15 years ago yet it was so awful I have not forgotten it. I can assure you that a toddler tantrum is an easy thing to handle in comparison.

My son had bowel issues ( still has them but different) . Where as a baby wears a nappy and is portable - my son was continent but he suffers from ongoing constipation using movicol. He would get a poo stuck half in and half out so I struggled to get to say, my daughter’s drama festival or her solo singing performance etc. I would just be stuck there. Also sometime he could not get it out so I would have to wipe the remainder and somehow clean him up as best I could. A baby in a nappy is far more portable. The mess is also considerably less etc.

More recently and as an adult my son just blocks the toilet fairly frequently. At present I have to unblock it but frankly he’s an adult so if they introduce a voucher system I will ask for a weekly plumber voucher to do it - the costs will be eye watering but dammed if I will do it and save the government money. I have a cleaner ( because as you note I’m middle class and the cleaner is paid for by me - not benefits) she refuses to unblock. So it will have to be a plumber pretty much weekly - they can shift th shit - I’ll be on strike with these pip reforms. I’m not cleaning up my adult son’s shit anymore!

Bstter still I’m move him to sheltered ASAP and their maintenance bill can increase rapidly.

I don’t understand your point. AT ALL. Your posts seem to be suggesting that at a time when the government is considering cutting vital support to disabled people, what they should be doing instead is spending even more supporting people without disabilities, for the cost of just being alive !! Care to expand ?

*You can get Personal Independence Payment (PIP) if all of the following apply to you:

• you’re 16 or over
• you have a long-term physical or mental health condition or disability
• you have difficulty doing certain everyday tasks or getting around
• you expect the difficulties to last for at least 12 months from when they started*

Read that again and tell me how PIP is meant to cover 'short term temporary conditions'. It specifically states the condition or disability has to be long term and there must be a reasonable expectation it will last at least 12 months.

I have never claimed that eligibility for PIP was any different than this.

It's unbelievable. 60 posts from one person on this thread alone amounting to nothing other than "but whatabout.."

Long term depression, you might expect that the person has multiple comorbid conditions, at least mental health, often a chronic physical condition too.

There would be deeper underlying factors such as trauma, ptsd, incurable physical condition.

How you would expect this to present differently in terms of immediate needs.

Greater tendency to suicidal ideation and self harm, lesser capability to cope with daily living and mobility. Permanently removed from work, education and social/leisure structures, thus little support network and route back into everyday life.

Potentially developing physical ailments due to lack of movement, poor diet, lack of personal care.

Needs are vastly greater for someone with longterm depression.

@Bumpitybumper

read the above

It’s incredibly ableist and ignorant to compare being a temporary wheelchair user to being a long term disabled person who is a wheelchair user. I say this as someone who has been the former! I got an insight into how inaccessible and exhausting the world is, I can empathise more but it’s completely ridiculous to suggest my temporary needs were the same.

I injured my right arm recently which was so debilitating given I am right handed. I couldn’t wash my hair, lift anything, do housework or cook or drive etc. I do not think my needs were comparable to someone who never has use of their dominant arm. Only someone with the empathy of a snail would think that. 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

Posted in wrong thread

The depression example is also pertinent. How is short term depression different to long term depression from the perspective of the immediate needs of the person with the condition? Nobody can answer this.

Long term depression causes brain damage that is visible on scans. Hth.

@Noras

I hear you.

We will adapt and overcome.

Should the gov go forward with this attack we will make damn sure to bill them or claim vouchers for all the costs - which greatly exceeds DLA/PIP

I'm sorry but this is simply untrue. Needs are not vastly different for someone with long term depression. So much of what you list in your post has a greater link with the severity of the depression rather than the time period it is experienced over.

Research has also found that people with long-term depression are at a higher risk for cardiovascular deterioration and heart attack. If a heart attack or other heart problem happens, it is more difficult to recover for individuals with major depression.

A quick Google of the risks of long term depression will tell you the needs are greater the longer depression remains untreated.

My overall point is that the cost of disability payments are spiralling. They will increase by 50% over the next five years alone. If society was willing to support and more importantly fund this then this would be an issue but it's clear that there is growing resentment and desire for change.

My point about 'need' is that it is argued on this thread that disabled people's needs are automatically vital whereas non disabled people's are essentially always lesser. Your post summarises this nicely, any costs associated with non disabled people are automatically considered to be just the 'costs of being alive' apparently whereas the needs of disabled people are always 'vital'. It is that black and white in your world. In reality anyone with real empathy would know that needs are nuanced and there is a hell of a lot of grey. To be a truly empathetic society we need to look at what everyone's needs are and allocate resources accordingly on this basis. We need to calculate the true costs of this and work out what we are and aren't willing to support. Do you think that the rise in PIP claims is due to a massive sudden increase in disability or the fact that people know that this is the best way to access the support they want and need in a society where more and more people are struggling with the CoL and simply to survive?

Yes, but again the severity of depression is still the overriding factor as to what your needs will be on a day to day basis. Someone with a short bout extremely severe depression will have far more urgent and comprehensive needs than someone with long term moderate depression.

Here’s a suggestion. I have been so worried that I have been thinking about this all night.

So my thoughts are to keep my son safe and off the streets wandering around flapping and talking to himself when I die.

1 My son could commit a crime go to prison and then at least be guaranteed 3 cook meals a day,heated room, people to care for him and also some visiting entertainment - in category D he might even go to the cinema or have films

2 The government can bring in little communities where there is on site supervision, they have little grocery shops and hairdressers etc There accommodation, bills are covered. They get a clothing allowance and also planned excursions to give some quality of life.

i suspect that either option will cost about £100,000 per annum per person but hey I know that my son will be safe - except for the historical abuse in ASD care facilities we can forget that.

im so desperate to make sure that my son does not end up a homeless talking to himself vagrant that I would happily chose either option for him when I die. The way things are going prison seems like a good bet - at least he gets 3 meals a day and a warm room.

Recently I have heard that universal credit housing benefit does not cover the cost of sheltered so the pip has to meet shortfalls. If that is the case, benefits just won’t cover sheltered with any form of comfort eg a once a month trip to cinema or a trip to somewhere to make life more endurable.

The alternative is that the government could just offer a pill for them to top themselves - which when faced with bumpity bumps suggestion that they should have no fun, no trips etc would be a good way out.

So far the prison option seems best for my son - less abuse hopefully with prison visitors etc and inspections.

I think people just think it's blatantly obvious and doesn't need to be spelled out.

As an easy example - someone has short term clinical depression for let's say 4 weeks. The gradual decline into the depression means their flat may be a little messy. They spend a couple of weeks on a psych ward then remain off work for a couple more weeks. They're feeling much better after their admission and over the next 2 weeks manage to start getting on top of things. After 2 weeks it remains a little messy but hasn't got any worse.

I'm sure you can understand how different it would be for the person with long term depression. I can spell it out if you like but can't really be bothered to have to write something so obvious!

But will cost the system less. The physiological impact of chronic depression is far greater than a short sharp episode. There is no getting around it. People with long term depression will need more physical and emotional support over a longer period of time and the impact on their social, emotional and physical wellbeing is far greater.

Perhaps the rise in PIP claims is tangentially linked to the COL crisis, as some disabled people who had previously not claimed because they were just about managing without have now hit the point where they need to claim?
So not a rise in disability but a fall in unclaimed benefits.
Also, the past few years have exacerbated many people's long term conditions as waiting lists for treatment grew, stress rose, and the systems people had in place collapsed.
This will have pushed people over the threshold for PIP who we're managing before.

I would think your DS would get a place in supported accomodation where he would get support with all his activities of living.

I

Yes, the person with short term severe depression has a slightly messy flat but don't worry it's all sorted in a few weeks and they just need to worry about a bit of tidying .

Are you serious? I can't believe I'm being accused of being naive and ignorant.

This might not be the case depending on the severity and duration of the episode. Short term means anything less than 12 months remember so can go on for some time and costs escalate rapidly when psychiatric care is needed.

I have learnt that the universal credit housing element does not cover the cost of supported living - so hence the pip might be necessary. Also he will still need PA’s.

As things stand on this thread it is suggested that he never goes out to the cinema or for a meal. Other people can make their own luck or chose a future. People with disabilities are stuck no matter how hard they work or study as their disabilities will thwart employment. The employment rates are abysmal.

Universal credit is set up to encourage people to take jobs but the disabled can’t take those jobs no matter how eager to work or willing.

What will be the point of life if it needs to be joyless as he can’t pay the cost of a PA to go out for a pizza. His costs will always he doubled as he needs a PA to go out. If those costs are not met - what’s the point of his life - to have the occasional walk to the park and at a stretch an ice cream maybe.

When you have no disabilities you have some control on your life to make it slightly better - he has none. Plus you don’t have to pay the costs of a PA to do the enjoyable thing eg pizza or trip etc.

So maybe they can just offer him a pill and be done with it.

You're being extremely naive and ignorant if you can't understand my very simple example.

As you need the further explanation, I shall give it to you.

The person with long term depression - they start off the same as the first person. Flat is a little messy. They go into hospital for 3 months and when they come out the flat is now dirty and in need of airing and some mice have moved in. This person still has a long recovery in the community ahead. They can only just about cope with the basics at home, let alone being able to do a spring clean and sort out pest control. The state of the flat is also affecting this person's mood and working against their recovery. It also starts affecting their physical health.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I've said nowhere that was all they had to worry about. But it was a very simple explanation as to the difference between one aspect of the person with short term depression Vs. long term depression.

If you can't understand this, I really don't know how else to help you. But I suspect you just enjoy being goady.

I have a family member in supported accommodation. They get housing element for 2 bedrooms to cover a room for the carers. The carers are also funded by the council. He just pays a top up of about £30pw that covers bills. Your DS may still need a PA but less so I would think as the staff at the house would do some of the things with your DS.