To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

After reading that thread though, what became clear was that although the lady was obviously struggling, she was able to put it in perspective and realise that actually she was able to work and her anxiety wasn't so crippling that she was hospitalised. She thought she kept on working because she 'had no choice' but actually if she really had a breakdown she'd 'have no choice' but to stop work. That's not to say she shouldn't take her symptoms seriously and get help so it doesn't get worse. But the degree of severity between someone running their own business and raising a family Vs. someone sectioned and in hospital is significant.

So while an able bodied single mum with ND kids may wish for a bit extra so she could get fish and chips, actually she's probably going to be ok to sort the dinner.

And then you have a household with multiple disabled people with a high degree of complexity. You have a day when chaos is reigning, multiple meltdowns are happening and 2 disabled parents have their own struggles on top of that. Fish and chips is probably the difference between if they have dinner or not.

I've been on the thread about towns in decline and prompted by other posters have just looked at the concepts of managed decline and then state decline.

I think we're seeing it in real time.

I don't believe it is the exact same need atall.

I hear you Noras and you are not alone.

Some people are clearly on a wind up but sadly some are genuinely stupid. No doubt they would be the first to complain if/when similar ever happens to them.

I'm so sorry. Certain posters should be thoroughly ashamed. It's not just this thread either. Please don't let a few idiots upset you. They aren't worth it.

💐

@Letsgetouttahere2023

Needs change from month to month.

For example for my DC this month I’ve had to buy OT equipment to support sessions. Last month bought a specialised bike, the month before 1:1 swimming lessons, next I’ve to pay for summer schemes (several providers), then after that I have to consider a special needs tutor.

Having vouchers or a scheme whereby you have to submit receipts isn’t fair - mainly because it gives you more admin to do and the amount of cash won’t vary much, in fact it could be more expensive (DLA/PIP doesn’t meet all costs).

As it is I am having to stay up into early hours to deal with admin related to my disabled child. I’m disabled myself and it’s really impacting my health - been in hospital twice this year due to my health getting worse as I can’t meet their needs and rest like I need to.

What they could do is give a lifetime award to those with permanent disability and then leave us the hell alone rather than be put through mountains of paperwork.

Codswallop.

No, but being a parent is a choice. Disability is not.

What they could do is give a lifetime award to those with permanent disability and then leave us the hell alone rather than be put through mountains of paperwork.

I agree. With some conditions it should be patently obvious that the person will not get better/ improve. Why are these people being put through countless reviews, and assessments, especially if they are already on the higher rates?

Depends on why the disabled person is in the wheelchair. A broken leg which requires the person to use a wheelchair while it heals is likely to have significantly more mobility than a disabled person who has multiple disabilities. Someone with a spinal injury can be confined to a wheelchair because they are paralysed so don’t have the ‘good leg’ to compensate - they are also likely to be doubly incontinent because of the injury to the spine. How on earth can you possibly think the two are comparable ?

No. You should know better than to post some of the things you have about disability. It’s not about agreeing with me or anyone else. It’s about the fundamental lack of understanding of the issues facing people with disabilities displayed in your posts.

Then you do that for all benefits

"From what she says, she gets £1k per month. The only thing I see her paying for is a cleaner."

No she doesn't get £1k a month

Are you with her 24/7 to know every little cost?

I actually use mine for a holiday once a year - there's a firework festival (not November 5) and I can't stand the loud unpredictable noise.

There is no level of PIP for 'physical problems' for a start.

There is a daily living component and a mobility component.

I assume you are refering to the mobility component which covers more than just physical issues.

Then of course the whole point of PIP is to help disabled people do things like work.

The lack of understanding of how a long term condition is different to a short term one is absolutely baffling!

I feel sad reading this thread. Stories of others who like myself have suffered to the point of psychotic breakdown . I don’t think you can ever really understand how bad you can feel ,how you just want to end the hell in your head until it happens to you.

If you are a PIP assessor I would really love your opinion on why you think some people get it and others who don’t. Do you think the system is fair?

lol. I think some are on a wind up. But, then; the point is that anyone receiving PIP has been assessed as needing it, and that won’t change because of some frothing MN posters.🙄

What happens next depends on what the next government chooses to do.

But this is ridiculous. Who has mentioned a broken leg being comparable to someone with multiple disabilities or someone that is incontinent? But for someone say with asymmetric arthritis then a broken leg may be comparable in terms of mobility and needing to use a wheelchair.

The person with broken limbs could have broken both legs for all you know and have damaged other parts of their body in an accident. You completely discount the possibility of this but assume the disabled person has a more complex disability. Why? Because you want to make what I'm arguing seem ridiculous when it is logically not.

The depression example is also pertinent. How is short term depression different to long term depression from the perspective of the immediate needs of the person with the condition? Nobody can answer this.

Most of what this poster is saying is baffling to be honest. They seem to be saying that the extra cost of disability is no different to extra costs non disabled people have. Wonder what her thoughts on child benefit and nursery fees are.

The double standards on MN are bonkers. There’s a thread detailing how a single parent is claiming free childcare without her ex’s knowledge while he makes payments to her for the exact same thing. She uses the extra money to pay for luxury mini breaks for herself. The justification for what is basically fraud, is that the mini breaks will recharge her batteries and allow her to ‘soldier on’!!

So basically the government wants to make disabled people jump through hoops to ensure that benefit money is spent as intended but doesn’t apply the same standards to the child benefit system and so doesn’t give a stuff that money meant for support with childcare is spent on jollies for the mother !!

Why are the immediate needs of a person who needs a wheelchair due to broken limbs incomparable to someone that needs a wheelchair for a physical disability?

You did. As above. You cannot compare the short term needs of someone who has a temporary health condition to those of someone who has a permanent disability. Permanent disabilities tend to degenerate over time and other conditions arise as a result. It is not the same thing. Just as you cannot compare the extra costs of someone who does not drive and has to use public transport to the cost of staying mobile if you have a permanent and substantial disability.

Of course I understand how a long term conditions is different than a short term one. The fallacy though is to suggest that a long term condition that would qualify as a disability has to have incomparable needs compared to a short term condition that would not be classified as a disability. This is obviously untrue when it can literally be the same condition with the same symptoms just experienced over a different period of time.

Posters on this thread have accused me of trying to be divisive and instil a 'them versus us' element into the debate, but this is the undercurrent of what you are arguing when you argue that non disabled people cannot have comparable needs to disabled people. It is illogical and diminishes the plight of those that are struggling everyday with very real needs. If we accept that help should be needs based then we need to look at what everyone's needs are and how we can best use our limited resources to meet them

I also haven't said how many broken limbs the non disabled person may have or what other injuries they may have in this scenario. You have assumed the non disabled person has a single broken leg and that the disabled person has a condition that impacts their spine or continence You have deliberately done this to make the comparison look ridiculous when in fact the individual nature of injuries and conditions means that it is totally plausible in some scenarios.

PIP doesn’t differentiate between long and short term conditions which qualify for the benefit. It awards benefit on the same criteria for both long and short term conditions for an appropriate length of time. Temporary conditions will attract a shorter term award. The qualification for all PIP eligibility is that the condition has to have been present for three months and be likely to last for at least another nine months.

And the plight of other non disabled and struggling is addressed by the benefit system, including child benefit, and the cost of things like rent, council tax and nursery fees. You claim to have experience of disability but you have no concept of disability benefits being available to support those who cannot support themselves.

This.

Sometimes I have to order in take out twice in a week or eat in cafes. Not because I fancy or think it would make my life easier to buy take out but could choose something else (honestly sometimes the thought of eating more bad take out food feels grim) but because if I didnt order take out my children would not be fed.

Vouchers would not help me here though because while some weeks I have to order take out twice a week other weeks I manage food but can't walk far and need taxies.

Some weeks I have to get the cleaner to come more. Some weeks i am managing and I push her back as money is so tight. Same with the gardener. I have to have these people come because I can't cope and without them the garden would be unusable and my house disgusting but how often I need them varies.

Also to be frank some weeks I have to cancel all this help and I have to go into debt if we need to order out etc because the fact is without PIP the government expect me to live on just over 11k a year for me and 3 children and that absolutely does not cover living. If the kids need anything at all, their coat is too small etc I have to buy it and well try living on 11k a year with 3 kids. It absolutely is not enough. So sometimes I just have to spend my PIP money on that.

I don't need vouchers or constantly having to send receipts and jump through hoops to prove how I spent money . I need money to make my own financial decisions because disabled people are human and shouldnt have to live under constantly scrutiny and opression whilst making their health worse.

If people would like to swap with me and I can have your health and job and you can have my autism, physical poor health, and poverty money but get to eat take out let's do swap, because I make myself more ill desperately trying to find a way to go back to work as I hate living like this and I hate that my children live like this. My life is hard and honestly none of you would want it. It's pretty disgusting how gleefully people sit here wishing to make it harder.

The comparison IS ridiculous. I’ve already pointed out that PIP does cover short term temporary conditions, but the point you are missing every single time is that that condition has to satisfy the assessment criteria.

With temporary injury, there are workarounds that are appropriate which simply don't apply for chronic long term disability.
If you're laid up with an injury, friends and family often rally round and offer meals, lifts, take the kids out to give you a break etc. you can use savings to mitigate lost income for the duration.
If you have a chronic disability it's a much bigger ask. You need to arrange regular solutions for meals, transport, respite etc once the kind offers inevitably dry up. These regular solutions generally cost money. Savings cannot mitigate all of this, and are certainly not a permanent solution.
That's even before getting into the deleterious effect of social isolation on mental health, or the ways in which dealing with chronic pain actually reshapes pathways in the brain.
That is the basic way in which temporary disability differs from permanent disability, and why the latter requires better support.