To be terrified about PIP?

[BobbyBiscuits]

I've tried to blank all this out for ages, but today it hit me when the government basically are saying I'm going to (they want me to) have my PIP cut off?
My main illnesses are severe depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder and severe anorexia. I've severe PTSD symptoms and also think I may have ADHD but have not been able to get diagnosed due to phobia of MH services since I got sectioned.
I now have physical symptoms also and severe osteperosis which I put on my last forms. But had no assessment for several years.
I'm praying this is BS from the Tories and they can't do it anyway as they'll be kicked out.
Or could labour still continue this assault against disabled people?
It would halve my already tiny income, other half is from ESA, and they could kick me off that too even though I can't do anything!?

What do people think?

I totally agree with you.

"I wonder what the responses here would be if the government were aiming the cuts at child benefit and child care costs." - very good point 😅

I think PIP is for the chopping block regardless of who forms government later this year as a non means tested disability benefit is unsustainable.

My guess is that there'll be a return to means tested DLA payments with far more stringent requirements for mental health conditions.

You have to have a long term condition to get PIP - writer's cramp hardly qualifies.

@ThisOldThang - let us know how you get on with your PIP claim for care needs due to writer's cramp. If it's so easy you can get yourself all that free money you're so jealous of disabled people getting!

Both, I think in spades.

That was me. And l didn’t change tac at all. I said that writers’ cramp would only qualify for PIP if the condition was severe enough to have a significant effect on the claimants ability to carry out the range of activities assessed. Writers cramp covers a number of conditions. It can be focal hand dystonia affecting the whole arm and shoulder. It can also be muscular, causing spasms and other symptoms often requiring surgery - and it’s the surgery which causes nerve damage, not the condition itself. Writers cramp can also be an indicator of a more serious condition such as Parkinson’s Disease.

And the list of PIP claims for the various disabilities which you produced doesn’t prove anything. It doesn’t quote numbers, only percentages of successful claims. So your 30% could be three successful claims out of ten submitted - no way of knowing without numbers. And also no way of knowing if that 30% claimed for writers cramp as a stand alone condition, or as one of multiple disabilities.

Do try to keep up sweetie. Who’s the grown up now ?

Got you - so not just an occasional n iggle when you write for a particularly long period.

My ASD DD actually gets pain in her fingers from writing due to her poor motor skills.

I don't think DLA was ever means tested was it?

DLA was never means tested. It was a universal benefit, as is PIP. If you’re assessing the extra cost of disability, where do you draw the line with means testing when all of the claimants have extra costs ? There will always be a cut off point which could mean those with high needs losing out because they’re over the threshold by a couple of pounds.

I think the problem with PIP is that it’s open to people with temporary conditions as well as permanent disability. The condition has to have been present for more than three months and likely to last another nine months to qualify. I think more could be done to expand the thresholds there to exclude relatively minor conditions, and to reiterate that there is a difference between a temporary or mild health condition and a permanent disability

The requirements for mental health conditions are already stringent for PIP. Only secondary consultant led care qualifies and the bar is set very high even for that. Sadly l think what it comes down to is that when the coalition government proudly announced back in 2013, that mental health conditions would now be included in disability benefits for the first time, they didn’t really think it through or properly anticipate the extra costs that would bring.

The fatal flaw with PIP is that it was never designed to properly support disabled people. It was designed to save money and based on the mistaken government thinking at the time, that very many DLA claimants weren’t genuine, and that raising the thresholds for eligibility would weed them out and drastically reduce claims. Instead people were successful on migration from DLA to PIP because they were genuine and many more who failed - mainly because of the deeply flawed assessment process - were successful at tribunal.

Add the cost of tribunals to the unexpectedly high levels of new costs for mental health conditions, and then factor in the high number of claims successful during the pandemic, and you begin to get a handle on things. Namely that PIP really isn’t fit for purpose. The problem is, that left to the Tories that’s the perfect excuse to ignore the real reasons that costs have increased, in favour of once again vilifying claimants and cutting support across the board. And as with every previous round of disability benefit cuts it will be the most severely disabled who will be first in line because they cost the most to support.

Anorexics struggle around food, even on a very low calorie intake they have "safe foods" which can often get expensive in the form of protein bars they deem safe, and other very low carb options of food that will actually get some nutrition into them. If trying to recover they've developed an aversion to food and can often only stomach bland meal replacement shakes to get calories back into them. It's not just not wanting to eat, in the process of becoming anorexic you develop a disgust and aversion towards alot of normal food, smell touch and sight wise. Not sure why you're so against the disabled, the way the world is now if you're not prepared to contribute you're done for or stuck in a life of poverty and some people just can't cope. They're not dancing around in diamond necklaces with your tax money

No, it wasn’t. PIP replaced it.🙂

‘Writer’s cramp’ for my daughter is hypermobility. She cannot lift a kettle, carry heavy books, walk for more than 30 mins, constantly sublexes joints. Her writing speed was very slow and she now gets 25% extra time in exams. She does not ‘look’ disabled.

Getting DLA also means that she qualify for things such as having a carer ticket when she goes to the theatre. It is much easier to get the reasonable adjustments that she needs in life (she cannot stand for long periods) that enables her to do the type of things her peers do. It is more than just the money attached to it.

just a note about anorexia. It is the most horrible condition for a parent to witness. To watch your child starve themselves. My dd was eating 300 calories a day and CAMHS would not help us. She would not drink It took hours to feed our child a small amount. At 17, her anorexic cognition is greatly reduced and she is about 95% WFH. I still need to constantly give her snacks. I suspect she doesn’t eat at school.

Your daughter's condition would be listed under hypermobility, which has a 53.4% success rate.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/success-rates

It says at the top of the page:

”The overall average success rate for PIP claims is 52%, but this varies widely depending on your main disabling condition.

For example, PIP claims for Rheumatoid Arthritis have a success rate of 74.7%, whilst those for Type 1 Diabetes are as low as 28%."

So writer's cramp is the main condition that some people are claiming for.

As an example of leisure activities. An average person can go and swim at the council pool very cheaply. Someone with ASD may not be able to do that due to sensory issues - noise, temperature, crowds etc. In order to be able to swim they have to go to the more expensive pool.

I'm sorry but as a nation we cannot afford this. We can't. There are times of day in pretty much all public pools that are quiet. Or you maybe just don't go swimming, its not a necessity. Lots of ordinary working adults can't or don't - they can't afford it, don't have time, the bus times don't work them to get to the women's session or whatever.

The reality is for a lot of people with mental health conditions, pip doesnt cover disability aids etc. It simply increases their income and in many cases its part of a suite of benefits that provide enough income combined to live off without working.

A big chunk of this is about forcing people into the workforce. We are currently as a nation funding:

1. a huge generation of baby boomers receiving large pensions
2. A massive pool of economically inactive people, this includes non working disabled etc.

we don't have enough people working to fund this. A higher percentage of the population needs to work to pay for the likes of NHS, schools, trains, infrastructure.

To be fair, many so called Boomers are paying tax on their pensions. I am. 🙄

Boomer im not questioning that but its pure numbers, the "boomers" are a large generation not currently paying NI and unless you are very wealthy the combined cost of treating your health, paying your state pension, giving you a free bus pass, winter fuel etc is likely less than you pay in tax.

State pension was never a funded system. The presumption is its funded by the working generations.

I feel terrible for the genuine cases out there and I know there are many, but for example my daughters ex gets PIP " for anxiety and depression " yet has no problem leaving the house to sell drugs or trying to use three days a week with his daughter as a reason to get a council place.
Or to claim CB when his ex already gets it.
I could continue.
He is an excellent liar.

It’s the current trajectory of future growth in PIP claimants that has spooked the Government. They seem (like Rwanda) to be willing to throw billions at curtailing the PIP benefit now to stop the trajectory of claimants in the future.

I agree we simply can’t afford to be giving benefits to this many people. I’d much rather the support be focussed on those who really need it and the costs associated with severe disability. It should also be means tested.

So give them the specialised treatment they are waiting for and have been waiting for often for years under this government.

Also saying we can’t afford reasonable adjustments for people with autism just beggars belief. You’re really not getting the realities of the disability. You can’t just switch it off and be forced into work.

Exercise is important for mental health.

I don’t really understand why so many people are confused by this. It is very clear, it is for mild mental health issues that do not prevent people working, as you are severely mentally Ill there is no impact on you op.

Also saying we can’t afford reasonable adjustments for people with autism just beggars belief.

Not saying we can't afford reasonable adjustments. Im saying i don't think paying for individuals to have expensibe private pool membership is a reasonable adjustment.

There are more cost effective approaches - for exam having a quiet autism friendly swim session in the local leisure centre with numbers capped. That is a reasonable adjustment.

You’re really not getting the realities of the disability. You can’t just switch it off and be forced into work.

You can argue against it all you like, there will be some individuals currently in receipt of pip who could work if there was no other choice. Go back in time 50 years and we didn't fund anything like as high a proportion of the population not working.

dh has never qualified for PIP despite being unable to work for ten years. Do not tell me it is handied out like smarties. He does not get income support either because we are fortunate that before he became too tired to work he was a saver plus I support him so that so far we have not had to dip much into the savings. I guess one advantage of being too tired to work is also being too tired to do anything else so spending has reduced. So, yes, we are more fortunate than a Iot.

I am so angry though that Sunak and his predecessors have decimated the NHS so that dh is unable to get help because he has never stopped wanting to be able to work. I am so angry that life has been quite frankly shit for the last ten years and will quite frankly continue being shit. Unlike Mr Sunak though I will continue to support dh and that is what he is relying on that family members will continue to support the vulnerable even if he won't.