To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

I think that you are right OP. We could afford private (both have done private 4 to 11 yo and our youngest was offered a place at a public school), but our eldest one is flourishing at a grammar so tutored hard for a grammar place for youngest, got one and took it. We could afford private but I think 20% is just the start of war against privately educated. Now the taxpayer gets to fund DS’s education instead and we’ll use the money for university, pensions, etc.

I actually said this to my friends hence my holiday comment, people will make other ‘sacrifices’ and various sectors will suffer as the money spent on holidays, or those in jobs will go part time to accommodate the kids activities and tutoring to keep on top.

So. They may well get better results than your child. It will be down to results and meeting entry criteria same as any other kid from other schools.

M0rePens - as I said, external candidates are treated the same - you said going to a state school would give priority. It doesn’t. Obviously going to that state school, so an existing student there does. But plenty want to transfer - this is a selective state that many missed out on in the 11 plus

Enough NHS doctors and surgeons cut their hours due to the pension life time allowance that the government U-turned and removed the LTA in the budget a year ago. People absolutely do cut hours to avoid tax cliff edges like the 60% rate over £100k, the LTA, and, in the future, hikes in school fees.

So why did you say the amount of people it will apply to in minimal?

Then they aren't very successfully operating business then, are they? Should we feel sorry for business for the elite-only market that do not operate well?

Yup, and if we are successful a child which would have got one of those external places otherwise had we stayed in private. So as I said, it’s not just the effect on the child moving from independent to state but also on that second child

Because I believe it will be minimal overall. Simply because I live in an area with an oversubscribed state school that doesn't mean I believe the impact on the wider nation, or even my wider county will be significant.

But you may not be successful. And if kids from other schools are applying it’s no different. A kid could miss out to a kid from another state school.

I do love a socialist harping on about utopia. It never ceases to make me smile. Back in the real world where things aren’t fair, privilege will always be a fact of life and socialism is plain old envy dressed in idealist finery, you’ll find a lot of parents like me making rational choices and that will be a consequence of Starmer’s class warfare.

You don't need to feel sorry for them, no.
You don't need to think they are successful or not successful as it's irrelevant.

You just need to accept that the finances of the majority of private schools, in general, do not have slack to absorb anything.

And this means that some will fold with a reduction in pupil numbers.

And if more people apply, more ‘other kids’ miss out. So the more of us who choose to move from independent to state, the more the potential impact on those other children.
I have prefaced that this consequence would only happen if successful. Limited number of places and more kids now going for them compared to before (with the increase only due to number moving from state - someone is going to miss out. It may be the independent school kids or it may be state school educated kids. I am just saying that this policy may have an impact on more than just the independent school kids.

In our area anybody who wants a place at the massive Outstanding state sixth form colleges gets a place if they meet the criteria. Ex private already attend to help with their uni admissions. 🤔The grammars are desperate for 6th form students. Privates losing kids just won’t make a jot of difference to admissions elsewhere. There are hoards of state schools and very few privates. Most in private will stay private as a bit of vat won’t be an issue. Nobody will notice. I know some struggling to pay fees are trying to whip up an issue but there really won’t be one.

Feeder schools? I have lived in several different LEAs whilst my children were in school and none of them use a feeder school system. All use a linear distance to the front gate/head’s desk system. Is the feeder school system really still in use anywhere? If it is a thing then won’t that just move the pressure into Yr5/Yr6 primary?

Many won’t go and work in the state sector.

Almost every poorly operating business can put better financial strategy in place, so I don't accept that the slack largely doesn't exist. Will they have to operate differently? Yes. Will some differences please the parents? Maybe not, but I'm not sure that keeping private school parents at the tip-top end of content is something that should really be the current concern of the wider nation.

It's my opinion that both private and grammar schools harm education for all – so them folding also isn't terrible news to me, which shouldn't come as a surprise.

well ours is not massive and is limited in numbers so we obviously live in different areas.
and from our cohort, the vat is making it unaffordable for many. No whipping up issues here but it is so easy to just say others will pay more. Personally we (and a fair few from our year group) won’t. Because we can’t.

That's their choice.

You’re wrong. Only a very few people can afford school fees easily. The rest are scraping by or with help from family. I know at least two families who have already made plans for September to change to a state school.

I certainly hope so. Fewer parents sending their kids to private schools is a good thing for society as a whole.

But you claimed it would be a win for the state sector. It won’t.

They won't need to go into the state sector. The way I imagine it is that the private kids go off to state schools and the private teachers tutor those private kids that they already know for £50-£80 an hour. And the parents will have loads of money to pay it as they now don't pay fees. And the inequality remains.

Not to mention the inequality with only million £ plus houses round lovely state schools - that's proper inequality for you.

We are seeing different things then – the people I know can comfortably afford the fees. Unless you have some published literature on the state of finances of fee-paying parents.

The ones that can't afford the fees will have to make other sacrifices, request more money from family or enter state facilities.

Ok so a few from a year group, some of whom won’t get the results needed really isn’t an issue. In many, many places there is no shortage of A level places in good schools, many 16 year olds also don’t want to do them and will be looking at BTec, Access and apprenticeships.

I think this is long overdue and the above really isn’t a good reason not to do it.