To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

Don't be ridiculous, of course it's privileged

Yes, we are going to be moving from independent to state after GCSEs now. The extra 20% is compounded by the fact it is on top of normal fee increases (which we had budgeted for). Assuming DC gets the grades (they are at a selective independent), we will now be switching. DC had been in private since 4, and we genuinely had expected them to stay until 18 but this is a game changer for us.

direct consequence (assuming we get the place!) will be one less place available to another local student. Not looking for any ‘sympathy’ for needing to move but for those keen on this policy, this is a knock on effect, so it affects two children, not just the one attending private school.

Apparently they're as rare as hens teeth according to some of this lot

😂

@sexnotgenders I care greatly about state schools, despite my DC being in a private school (he has SEN and they have a specialist unit). I care so much I’m Chair of Governors at a local state school they was judged RI by Ofsted and has a terrible reputation locally. I spend hours of my time helping that school to improve, no ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude from me. I’m one of the 6% and I’m doing my best but the issues in state schools are beyond me to fix.

If a local private school shuts, the kids might come to the school I’m a governor of but they won’t stay, they’ll move to one of the more desirable state schools as soon as a place opens up. It’s what happens now at the school but will happen on a larger scale and be more disruptive to our school which has plenty to deal with- our SEN rates are treble the national average, about 40% EAL, a significant minority group presence who are known for poor attendance.

I’m passionate about improving state schools but I’m not convinced this will do it. I’d rather see tax changes made where we tax wealth rather than income.

Not really. Many A level classes struggle to run in the state system. You’ll be helping by providing more bums on seats.

I think they vary but you do get threads claiming state schools are ‘all in crisis’ or nearly all are good / outstanding depending on what effect people are going for

The answer likely is many are ok but it doesn’t stop parents who switch to state sector from spending to get into the best ones, and then displacing other dc

Around 70% of their costs are staff salaries. Are you suggesting private schools should be making people redundant to fund this?

Absorbing a VAT increase isn't as simple as decreasing all your fees by 20%. Each school should be assessing why they are on such thin margins, invest in better longterm financial strategies and how to operate as more efficient businesses if they wish to keep afloat.

Is it my personal opinion that the increase will have such earth shattering effects? No, it isn't, but no one on this thread has a crystal ball though some are certainly acting like it. But do I think private education and grammar education harms education for all? – yes, absolutely.

M0rePens - don’t think that’s the case in the school sixth form we are going for - there is a definite size limit on sixth form places - irrespective of the a levels undertaken.

Would they be less privileged in your opinion if they used the fee money to buy a house in the best local state school catchment area?

The population has declined. We have consultations out here for which schools will be closed and combined!

I know three people who are doing this - taking them out of private and going to state schools for sixth form. There are a number of reasons why this is happening, but VAT on fees is definitely a factor. Two of them are sending their kids to a grammar sixth form and one to a selective sixth form college.

That's also a privilege not afforded to many

But students will have admissions criteria hinging on gcse results and those already attending a state school are given priority.

No that’s not what their admission code says. No priority that I can see

Firstly, that's certainly not a blanket figure. That applies to some schools, not others. The top 4 private schools don't even spend 50% of income on staffing.

Any business facing financial instability should certainly look at staffing costs, yes. Redundancy isn't the only outcome to reducing staffing costs.

So is anyone not living in the worst house in the worst area also privileged?

The top 4 are almost irrelevant to the whole debate. The fact remains that the vast majority of PS have wage bills of around 70%. This means a 20% saving, if absorbed by the school, has to come primarily from people losing their jobs.

Hopefully the redundant private schools will become grammar schools.

Many private schools already have staffing levels cut to a minimum with teachers in burnout. If there was fat to cut, it would already have been cut. I am referring to your run of the mill private schools, not Eton and the like. Certainly the two that I know staff in are already in this position.

Well that's a nice hope, but it's more likely the buildings will be sold for development.

In fact I’ve just checked - for external candidates there is no distinction beteeen private and state attendees. Obviously those already there get the benefit of being an internal candidates with different admissions criteria. But lots of people we know wanted to move from a different state school to this one. And they will be on an even playing field with our DC for admissions criteria.

Applying for places at Sixth Form
2.6
Children and their parents applying for sixth form places may use the
CAF, although if they are already on the roll, they are not required to do so in order to transfer into year 12. Admission authorities can, however, set academic entry criteria for their sixth forms, which must be the same for both external and internal places. School sixth form admission arrangements for external applicants must be consulted upon, determined, and published in accordance with the same timetable as for admission arrangements for other entry points.
As with other points of entry to schools, highest priority in oversubscription criteria for sixth form places must be given to looked after children and previously looked after children who meet the academic entry criteria. As stated in paragraph 1.9 m) above, any meetings held to discuss options and courses must not form part of the decision process on whether to offer a place.

From government site. If they are already students and meet sixth form criteria they just transfer.

Once again, redundancies are not the only solution to reduce staffing costs. If staffing levels and expenditure are at such a crucially high point, then yes they should reassess staffing expenditure – obviously, as they are a business. Why shouldn't it operate like any other business? Regardless, you won't find too much sympathy in the general public for teachers having to take jobs at state facilities – the recruitment crisis in the state school sector is very prevalent and negatively impacts a far greater proportion of children in the country than the privately educated ones.