To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

“It's not a special tax condition. It's just that education isn't taxed. Because taxing education is plain stupid, because it's a double positive externality. that's why nowhere else in the world is dumb enough to do it.”

DUMB is exactly the right word, thanks @MisterChips .
Or perhaps it is more sinister than that and these are more Russian Marxist trolls we are dealing with, reminiscent of Brexit.

I do think we need to tread carefully here.

Unfortunately a lot of leftie Marxist type academics who have never worked in the real world are also succumbing to some of this “dumb” thinking. I know politicians are out of touch, but I expected more from some academics.
Get into the real world some of you and actually engage with the numbers.
Putting ideology above public finances is NOT going to help those who need help the most in our country.

We do not accept that is the case.

Not a special tax arrangement though. You said something about not responding to arguments...but you still haven't provided an argument, just opinions about what's "fair" and now falsehoods.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064676-to-think-good-school-places-will-be-even-harder-to-find-next-year-because-of-the-vat-on-school-fees?reply=134924587&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Because....?

You can't have it both ways:

"should be absorbing it", and also "they are a business...they should employ better finance directors or not operate"

If they can't absorb it - and they won't because a) it's a hell of a lot off the bottom line and b) they're a business, as you've pointed out - then the "better" finance director is going to see to it that the fees go up.

🙄

@Araminta1003 I am laughing at the idea I am an academic.

Just state schools have a problem with stabbings? OK
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/18/boy-17-denies-three-charges-of-attempted-murder-devon-boarding-school

‘I teach at three different private schools. They are all parent power schools (Sunday times) with really good SEN provision. This is why most parents have chosen to send their kids there, not because they want to avoid little Johnny mixing with the local riff raff.’

About half of our friends send their kids to private schools - not a single child has SEN. The one thing they ALL have in common is at least one parent working in Finance.
Most have a professional parent and a Doctor/ Comsultant/Dentist/ parent.

I respect the ones who say - we can afford it, we DON’T want little who we going to the local comp, my parents are paying - than the ones who pretend that their child is in some way more special than the other children…

Brighton College is NOT full of SEN kids - it’s full of kids tutored to within an inch of their lives to pass the entry exam, and who’s parents have £30-£40k a year to drop on each child’s education.

It’s about class, money, prestige and social connections - it’s just going to cost a little bit more once we have a government in power who might actually give a damn about something other than protecting tax breaks for the privileged

@AllyCart But private schools operate in a competitive capitalist market. The best will be fine. They will charge increased fees and parents will pay them.
The marginal private schools who struggle to attract enough parents will struggle and some may go under.
I am not sure why you think this is a bad thing? It is integral to a private school capitalist market.

You mean, it's going to cost the taxpayer more to fund state education, right?

I'm not pretending my children are more special / important whatever than other children (although non-EHCP SEN and other conditions are more prevalent in private schools than in state schools). What I'm saying is this is an atrocious policy for the public finances.

OMG.

A "competitive capitalist market". In which 93% of the "competitive capitalist market" is fulfilled by a state-funded mainly state-operated monopolist that exerts rigorous price control and sets curriculum, pedagogy and inspection regime and has the extraordinary privilege of a nearly-captive customer basis and guaranteed revenue.

A "competitive capitalist market".

The poster is talking about the private sector of course. Surely that is obvious!

Absorbing it means better business and financial strategy that any business should be expected to put in place when challenging times arrive. There is not anything about that statement that ‘has it both ways’.

A good financial strategy avoids putting fees up to the point that you lose your custom and therefore must close. Obviously.

Will private schools that run under a more economic model resemble exactly what they did before? Maybe not, but times change. If the schools don’t like it they can close. If the parents don’t like then they have free education available.

DC1 is just about to go to Uni, and this leaves 1 in private. Our school has already said to anticipate and allow for the VAT to be added on within in a year. This takes me nicely to before 6th form. I’ll move my DS to state then. The local state is good, and my DC has learnt discipline and good study skills and he’ll be fine.

I could suck it up and pay for it, and we can afford it, but I’m not doing it out of principle. Why should I pay more money into the pot? I’ve already saved the UK govt money by paying for my schooling since 4 for 2 DC. Also, my DC are being demonised for going to a private school, so fine, I’ll send him to be on the same level playing field as everyone else. I’m not worried about him moving, he’s a solid, hardworking student.

If my DC were younger I wouldn’t now send them. Or I’d pull them out at the jump points. It’s not just the money, it’s the fact that they are now penalised against, and I’m not paying more than we do now. I’ll get my DC a tutor if he needs one.

@ItsAStateOfMind "it’s the fact that they are now penalised against,"

In what way?

You haven’t performed a public service by sending your DC to private school. Nor is that the reason you sent your DC to private school.

Why shouldn’t you pay more?

I sat in a presentation by one of the leading Uni’s and the admissions head told the parents that they discriminate against private school students and prioritise state. Only one Uni on the panel said they didn’t do this. Not one student was accepted at this Uni, whereas they normally take a few. I know other private school DC predicted 4 A*’s and they were rejected.

In year 10 we applied for work experience and every company said they only accepted students from state schools.

It’s only going to get worse under Labour, so yep, I’ll move my DC to state for 6th Form.

How are your DC being demonised for going to a private school?!

I am incredulous that the admissions head of a leading university would ever say that they are discriminating against private school students. They may have said they contextualise students but discrimination is what you heard.

Sounds like the VAT is just the reason you need to get out if your DC are disadvantaged.
I've read on there before though that the universities look at where the GCSEs were taken, so be aware of that if they are in private schools until then.

@ItsAStateOfMind Maybe employers think private schools have enough parents who can offer work experience to pupils of the school?

@ItsAStateOfMind " sat in a presentation by one of the leading Uni’s and the admissions head told the parents that they discriminate against private school students and prioritise state."

I couldn't be more sure that he didn't say this. Are you sure he wasn't talking about contextual offers?

@MisterChips I presume you're aware that the author of the paper you cite is not an economist?

...I think we're all agreed the resentment and anger is on your side of this debate.

@MisterChips no we are not. Your posts have been rude and imperious. You are clearly very invested but the tone of your posts does nothing to foster sympathy from your wider audience.

I agree starlingsforever. MisterChips seems like she has a major chip on her shoulder.