I am surprised at the level of Islamophobia on Mumsnet

[Cyclebabble]

I have seen a number of threads on Mumsnet over the last couple of days that question relationships with Muslim men, Muslim Marriages and suggest that Islam is an extreme religion looking to take over the world. I am a Hindu (nominally at least), but come from a country where inter faith marriages are common and where I am friends with and related to a number of Muslims.

Guess what. They are all normal people just looking to get on with their lives, doing the best for their family and friends. They are good citizens and they harm no-one.

There is a building view on Mumsnet that Islam is dangerous, repressive and looking to take over the world. It is now different to any other religion, as are the people.

Yes but what I mean is, RoI no longer makes laws based on Catholicism whereas the likes of Iran does. That's what I mean is historically Christian countries have achieved a separation between Church and State, many Islamic countries haven't.

The counter argument is that you are simply being racist and that your fear is not genuine.

And people you know seem to have a lot of bad experiences with "muslims", must just be unlucky I guess.
Any good experiences with Muslims from your wider friends and family you would like to share?

I lived in London for 35 years, travelled the underground every weekday for work. I never felt that fear, even after 7/7. That's because I am not a racist.

Also to add to my previous posts.

A lot of Muslims are raised in culturally Muslim households and have certain rules going so far back that they don't even know its not the religious thing to do.

I have recently seen more and more born Muslims taking more time to go back and re learn their religion. As they have been taught culture and told it was religion

Oh for goodness sake! If you felt "fear" because 2 men that don't look like you were carrying out the heinous crime of carrying backpacks then you're the problem not them.

I'd say you're the greater danger here.

if you look at Christianity, it can scan the spectrum from almost full secular integration to isolationist sects that actively preach discrimination and take pride in controlling women. Some people will argue that shows the mistreatment of women in some areas of Christianity is cultural, not a part of the religion. I don’t agree with that argument. I think as long as religion is used as a justification for a practice, then the practice is in fact religious, not cultural.

I notice @DrJoanAllenby hasn't aswered my question about Cardiff. I wonder why?

@IClaudine no one responded to my answers after being asked too. But there we go. What can I say.

I agree with this and in fact I think it's no possible to make a separation between culture and religion. All types of religious or ritualistic or spiritual behaviour are cultural.

EG we tend to think that the Western idea that all human life has intrinsically equal value comes from the Enlightenment but in fact it comes from Christianity. Conservative Hinduism for example does not start from this same assumption.

That is why I locate the issue with fundamentalist Islam in legislature not culture. I believe it does Muslims a disservice to pretend that funamentalist Islam's treatment of women is cultural when it is in fact due to Islamic Governments which legistlate based on a hardline and mediaeavl interpretation of Islam.

The problem is with people in power using religion to control their populations, the problem is not ordinary Muslims themselves.

I think the point about cultural expression of religion is well made, but the thing it does not actually help. Someone who says "but I need to have x y or z" and "you must respect this to respect my religion" is literally asking for an exception. Now if you've mostly lived in a country with one dominant religion and not much enforcement over the last forty years of its importance, culturally the religious person is making a huge demand. That is things like Michaela or saying "this is a Muslim area". Neither of those things are actually legitimate in law or what the majority culture expect. It is any expectation where the non religious must defer or adjust to those who are. That is not something you can demand. You might get it because people have manners. That's about it

@Hoppinggreen
TBF treatment of women is not cultural. The Koran says that men are a step above women, that a man can beat his wife if she won't have sex with him or leaves the home without permission, that a woman's evidence in court is worth half that of a mans.....this is not cultural, but prescribed in the Koran.

Thank you @Springchickenonion . No the comment was aimed at @Hoppinggreen.

I can assure you that my cousin would not make things up. I knew him and he wasn't that type of person. It happened in Luton, around 1995/6 if that helps. He must have just been unlucky but he was very shaken by it. He was only trying to be friendly.

Thank you for your previous explanations. It would seem that it was men being men and doing what suits them but expecting become to follow their version of the rules. I still do not understand how those women on the beach could have chosen to dress like that. I wouldn't expect them to lay there in bikinis but surely a full length light coloured summer dress would have been acceptable.

Anyway, I have to go out now, but Thank you for your measured explanations.

@DoraSpenlow thank you . Sorry I thought you had ignored me. Ignore my last comment!

Agreed he is doing his utmost to change it to an Arabic influenced country

Most Muslims I've met are nice people, but clearly some people aren't

I didn’t think this thread could get any more surreal but if you really need it explained to you that some people are nice and some aren’t, regardless of their religion then I despair.

@toomanyy
’Islam’ is not a person. And the Quran is clear there is no compulsion in religion. It says ‘To you your faith, and to me mine.’
True, true, but Islam also says that those that leave Islam should be killed, and the only religions respected are those of "the book" ie Jews and Christians; others are allowed - and are - treated dreadfully, and even Jews and Christians need to pay more tax etc, if they live in a Muslim country.
Generally I think we need to distinguish Islamophobic from Muslimphobic. The latter is wrong; people should be free to live their lives and practice their faith, but the former is different: it is an integrated belief system which I, as a woman and feminist, object to profoundly and it is not phobic to say so.

False, false. The Quran makes no mention of forcing anyone to return to Islam or any corporal punishment.

Those who leave Islam will have to explain to God.

But if they don’t believe in God then how are they affected?

Muslimphobic is a cop out, if it allows hatred of Muslims to develop by allowing Islamophobia.

Well the point was that despite no longer making laws based on the church, the legacy is very firmly implanted and had has a very real effect (affect?) on the majority of the population.

I didn’t think this thread could get any more surreal but if you really need it explained to you that some people are nice and some aren’t, regardless of their religion then I despair.

Sorry but are you a bit dim? I'm the anecdote presented, the man said a girl can't enter b cause it's a Muslim area. I take it that in that case, he's not the only person in the area who thinks similarly of girls.

Nice try, you made a general statement that ‘Most Muslims I've met are nice people, but clearly some people aren't’

As if all Muslims are responsible for the not nice ones.

It’a depressing that the discourse hasn’t changed for decades.

So I should say all Muslims are dicks then? And that would be better, because being a balanced person is apparently hypocritical. Ok.

There are concerns about some parts of islam. A Muslim area being unwelcoming to a girl based on her clothing is a concern to most normal people.

You were right, it's effect.

I can never be sure. It's a strange blind spot for me 😕