To wonder if church schools are becoming undated

[Notasproutbutagiantpea]

*outdated ?

My youngest DC is off to start school in September and we are in catchment of a relatively new modern school with 5 class intake and also same distance is a church of England school with 2 classes. Both same good ofsted, both in past 2 years.

The church school catchment on the council website is basically the whole wider area, which is slightly confusing. But the church school has been undersubscribed for the last 2 years. Is this a low birth rate thing or the fact the the non- religious school is full more appealing in modern times? Maybe less people are christened, or religious, so find it harder to secure a church school if this is considered part of the application as still goes through the council, but you can add notes as to why you want the school. Plus the church school was saying before the place allocation that they still had spaces for September. A friend has said years ago that the head had said they pick who they want, in terms of family fit so distance isn’t an issue.

A couple of smaller schools (single intake) in the area have become academies so maybe it’s just smaller schools are struggling?

Or maybe the church school is unappealing for other reasons? I moved my reception child out of a church school because of the number of children from her class that were smoking on the way home from school

Reception children were smoking?!

CofE schools do not (vast vast majority) have religious affiliation anywhere on their admissions criteria. Catholic schools often do, however. Rather than being undersubscribed due to being outdated, I think it’s due to CofE owning the school buildings, hence they tend to be mostly in older, smaller villages and towns, and they also tend to have a smaller cohort limit due to capacity of the rooms. Newer, larger schools crop up in town expansions so will be be LEA/Academy.

My twins go to a CofE school as there was no space at our catchment academy school. Religion does not come into admissions.

yes. I took my daughter out

4 year old were smoking....

well, I think they were 5 by this time.

Children aged 4-5 years smoking cigarettes on the way home from school?

Your friend, or the head, is talking bollocks about picking family who fit into the school. They have to stick to their published admissions criteria.

Why is the catchment for the COE school whole town and 2 neighbouring town rather than just a certain areas? I don’t understand the criteria then.

The non religious LEA school has a set catchment as do other LEA schools. But I agree yes older villages maybe not so much movement now with house prices being so high so younger families not coming in.

again, yes! after school in the park next door, yes, reception children smoking, in a little huddle in a bush. I took my daughter out

@alloweraoway I hope you reported this?

I took my child out of a C of E school because of the dimwitted creationist Biblical literalism the vicar kept popping in to talk about. Fortunately, a class of 9 year olds treated it with the polite, disbelieving hard stare it deserved.

This must vary by area as both in our last place and now all of the C of E schools had religion on their admission criteria. It was particularly annoying given that there aren't any non-religious schools to choose so we ended up at the bottom of the pile for everywhere!

Glad to hear it's not like that everywhere though, gives me hope that things are changing!

So I checked the admissions criteria and it paraphrased says wants to attend a church school and attends church regularly. They wanted to go there but weren’t church attendees.

Catchment areas are weird, OP. Here, it's the other way about. Or rather, the Catholic and the LA schools are for the whole town, and the CofE ones are for specific areas. They're never updated, however many houses are built around the outskirts.

I think it depends on how good the school is and what other schools are in the area. I have 2 friends who got their children christened to get into church schools (different ones) despite there being other schools nearby with the same ofsted ratings. They weren't religious. So some people are wanting their children to go to these schools.

The school could be unappealing in other ways eg. Lack of wraparound care.

Im not sure about catchment area, the c of e high school my DC will go to lists a few villages where children living there get priority, it is quite rural though.

The catchment is just because of a result of lower numbers. The oversubscribed school has to have a smaller catching to make the cut off of students easier. With more people in the UK being non Church of England or religious in any way, religion linked schools are likely becoming less popular. Also most newer built schools will have no religious links, have newer facilities and look a bit more shiny and appealing but it not the main thing. The most important thing is that they are caring and inclusive and give you the feeling that this is the wider family you want to sign up yo for the next 7 years. So go and have a look and get the feeling for both. We aren't particularly religious but the local village school is Churcb of England. It's massively under subscribed but such a caring, happy place to be. Some of the neighbouring village schools ars bigger and over subscribed but people are now moving to us because they've realised our small student to staff ratio and personal touch actually being more benefits than brand new facilities but 30 in a class.

This doesn't mean they wouldn't have got in under other criteria, distance being usually the last but most common. They really aren't allowed to stretch a point for people they like the look of.

So many questions! Where were the parents? How were they getting the cigarettes? How could their tiny hands and limited fine motor skills work a lighter?

However, my assumption would be that that had nothing to do with being a church school, and almost certainly a representation of the demographic.

I was wondering about the lighters. I've always blamed my short thumbs on not being able use one but now I question why it is I can't if a 5 year old can!

Interesting how do they afford smaller classes, because the church contribute ? My DC is going to the LEA school, but the church school is trying very hard to get local people to change their choice, which must mean they need a certain number, I assume money is paid per pupil from the ‘council.’ I suppose my main issue with this campaign is them telling people to switch to a nurturing school. Implying another choice is more ambivalent.

I just wondered about if Church school are reducing in popularity ( apart from with hairy handed child smokers 😉)

Sorry I've got distracted by the four year olds smoking too. Who is lighting the cigarette? What kind of cigarette hold: palmar grasp like the way they hold their pencils? Why walking home from school alone? Superior fine motor skills for sure but I agree I would pull out my child for that reason too

Religious catholic schools very popular in NI. And in my experience more nurturing than the state options but of course that is a small sample size of 3 schools.

population wise i believe in the uk, religious attendence/belief or association with a religion is decreasing?
Religion, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

Im laughing far too much at this scenario and the very valid questions being raised.

Buying, lighting and huddling to smoke 🤷‍♀️