To wonder if church schools are becoming undated

[Notasproutbutagiantpea]

*outdated ?

My youngest DC is off to start school in September and we are in catchment of a relatively new modern school with 5 class intake and also same distance is a church of England school with 2 classes. Both same good ofsted, both in past 2 years.

The church school catchment on the council website is basically the whole wider area, which is slightly confusing. But the church school has been undersubscribed for the last 2 years. Is this a low birth rate thing or the fact the the non- religious school is full more appealing in modern times? Maybe less people are christened, or religious, so find it harder to secure a church school if this is considered part of the application as still goes through the council, but you can add notes as to why you want the school. Plus the church school was saying before the place allocation that they still had spaces for September. A friend has said years ago that the head had said they pick who they want, in terms of family fit so distance isn’t an issue.

A couple of smaller schools (single intake) in the area have become academies so maybe it’s just smaller schools are struggling?

In parts of Cambridgeshire it would usually be village college, but in this context I am not sure…

I ate one of my aunt’s cigarettes at around 4, because I think I thought that’s what smokers did when they out cigarettes in their mouths! Alas, it was lighted and I began with the lit end…

My daughter is at a CofE school and has never been christened etc, and about half her classmates are either not Christian or actively practice different religions. The school is really hot on multiculturalism and had events to celebrate/learn about Diwali (for example), take trips to a mosque and a synagogue as well as the local church, and have days when family members can come in and talk about their family traditions/celebrations/language. They do sing hymns and learn about God, and I know parents who chose a different school because they didn’t want the Christian element.

It is undersubscribed, but there are five primary schools within half a mile of my house, and a huge new housing estate being built so it won’t be the case for long…

VC = Voluntary Controlled

Religious schools are popular where I live and are hugely sought after. They all require church attendance, even the CofE ones, with an ordered list of the churches they accept from.

@Notasproutbutagiantpea Some simple explanations you might find useful.

Some schools can choose based on religion. These schools are usually Voluntary Aided schools. In these schools, the church owns the building and employs the teachers. They have far more autonomy over their affairs. In my area there are fewer VA schools. However most RC schools will be VA.

Voluntary Controlled schools usually follow standard admission procedures and religion is not mentioned in admissions. Often VA schools cover the whole parish. VC and community schools have defined catchment areas which tend to be smaller. However the larger areas of VA catchment is because they choose DC from the area on religious affiliation and these dc will bypass local schools.

All the schools must follow the agreed curriculum for RE teaching. The daily act of worship may well vary and Vicar intervention!

Hope that makes sense.

I meant to say: read the admissions policy for each school and understand the difference between VA and VC.

Our DCs go to a CE school because we like and don't mind the religious ethos. I was raised a Catholic, DH was from a different denomination but aligns with Catholicism. We'd rather send them to a Catholic school but they're more than an our from where we live.

A bonus is that the curriculum is much better at our CE school than the other local outstanding secular school school.

Why Did you not confront the children and take the cigarette off them and find the parents ?

She was probably scared they were carrying knives as well!

Edited ( sorry missed post above explaining VC and VA)

VC and VA ( first a bit of history to try to explain).
At the time of the 1945 education act many of the existing schools had religious foundations. The C of E (and later the Roman Catholic church) had built and financed their schools. It wasn't until after 1870 that the state provided education and they relied on tge existing structure, only building schools in places where the C of E hadn't already done so. The state began to help with the financing of these church schools eventually providing up to 50% of the running costs.

The 1945 education act put financing on a different basis. Some church schools became VC, some VA. (Over 50% of C of E primaries became VC, Catholic primaries all became VA)

VC stands for voluntary controlled school. The local authority provides the funding and controls the school, appoints staff and controls admissions.

VA stands for voluntary aided. The running costs are paid by the LEA but capital costs are only partially funded. These schools have more autonomy, appointing the majority of the governors, appoints staff and has more control over admissions.
(Then it gets more complex in recent times with academies and foundation schools)

Errrr no, not even in the roughest areas of the country do I believe 4 and 5 year olds were smoking. Especially not a group of them in the park. Even if you had one outlier with criminally negligent/abusive parents, a group of them is inconceivable. So they were either doing something else (idk, playing with a firework) or you’re telling porkies.

My kids are at a church school. Its the only school in our village and ive found it annoying how much Christianity is pushed at school, when they know that almost none of the children attend church or have parents who do - its simply the only school unless you want to drive 20 mins in rush hour and actually, where we live you won't get into the nearest non church school unless you live nearer.

I wonder if more and more parents have been put off cofe schools as in an increasingly secular society, the proselytising to children is very offputting.

In our area there are falling rolls due to a covid exodus from urban areas. So all the schools are feeling this. But more generally church schools will continue to be popular with the significant numbers of families with a Christian faith. I don’t see my faith as outdated. But there are also other faith schools and secular schools locally, which I think is part of a modern society.

Most people don't have a choice as most (primary) schools are owned by the church. This is historical and unless the government buy all the schools then this will continue, the UK after all is first and forecast a Christian country. It's unfortunate to at some schools it's pushed so much.

I am disappointed that the government are going to allow schools to select based on religion. Frankly I think this is divisive and dangerous, I agree with religion being taught as a subject but religious schools should not be allowed. Why can't children be all educated together?

Some religions have beliefs that go against our beliefs and cultural norms. This will go unchecked, we have already seen this play out in Muslim schools where girls were being segregated. We need consistency in education.

More plausible but not what was originally said...

tthe number of children from her class that were smoking on the way home from school"

Very entertaining sub-post however, I've been loving the comments!

@Notasproutbutagiantpea , it may be an issue local to you, but all the ones I know are hugely oversubscribed. Following this morning’s news, I don’t think they are becoming unpopular generally.

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

The UK is not a Christian country

We have Christian heritage but the cofe is in rapid decline in the UK. Very few people actually attend church in any form and the statistics are even lower for children and young people.

Were they passing around a bottle of vodka in a brown paper bag as well?

This makes me so sad.
Dd attends a COE village primary complete with morning Hymns, religious school inspections, visits from the vicar and school specific services where they all walk over to the church at key times during the year. Its well funded with one form per year. It brings everyone together and there's a real sense of community in the village. I heard her singing When I need a neighbour in the shower the other night and it brought back so many lovely memories of my time at primary school.

I think the Pp was quite disingenuous with her first comment
It subsequently turns out she witnessed an older child and two reception aged children smoking in in some kind of Bush once ,obviously this is still incredibly worrying
But I could just about believe that an older child might have pinched some fags off their parent and given them to friends / siblings to try out of curiosity
Originally it sounded like a group of reception age ,d kids were regularly lighting up smoking!

Lol
'Give us a quick drag I need to get back for Balamory' ( or modern equivalent)

In my area in Essex , the church schools are highly sought after, so definitely not outdated.

Of course you did.

I ate one of my aunt’s cigarettes at around 4, because I think I thought that’s what smokers did when they out cigarettes in their mouths! Alas, it was lighted and I began with the lit end…

🙈🙈