To wonder if church schools are becoming undated

[Notasproutbutagiantpea]

*outdated ?

My youngest DC is off to start school in September and we are in catchment of a relatively new modern school with 5 class intake and also same distance is a church of England school with 2 classes. Both same good ofsted, both in past 2 years.

The church school catchment on the council website is basically the whole wider area, which is slightly confusing. But the church school has been undersubscribed for the last 2 years. Is this a low birth rate thing or the fact the the non- religious school is full more appealing in modern times? Maybe less people are christened, or religious, so find it harder to secure a church school if this is considered part of the application as still goes through the council, but you can add notes as to why you want the school. Plus the church school was saying before the place allocation that they still had spaces for September. A friend has said years ago that the head had said they pick who they want, in terms of family fit so distance isn’t an issue.

A couple of smaller schools (single intake) in the area have become academies so maybe it’s just smaller schools are struggling?

I think that you are right that (a) Christianity is less popular than it once was (b) lots of people who are religiously observant follow other religions so even less likely to want a church school than a secular one (c) 2 forms is very small and not appealing to many, you don’t get the economy of scale on facilities either (d) if the school picks and chooses families then there must be some complex interview or written application process otherwise how would they know the families? Much easier just to fill in the form in the council website and get allocated to a standard school by address.

I went to a church school, despite not being christened, and have nice memories of singing hymns and nativity plays and all that stuff, so I had no qualms about sending DD to one. But boy, was it overkill! The vicar in every week, SIAMS inspections, the lot - seemed so much more than when I was a kid. She now goes to a secular secondary school, which I am glad about.

On a side note I don't think smoking 5 year olds is too representative of the average C of E school🤔

So many questions
Was it reported ?
Was it a regular thing or a one of occurrence?
Did they share their fags or were they all smoking their own?
It does sound quite preposterous .

Or Catholic either
Parents yes, five year old not so much .

So the local parents pick their kids up from school then leave them to roam unsupervised in the park, give them access to cigarettes and lighters and don’t notice them coming home smelling of fags?
Remarkable manual dexterity for a 5 year old.

Oh and if this ever happened it’s the school’s fault?

Maybe you mistook a group of people with dwarfism for kids…

Honestly! I don't know, I mean, I had some doubts about the children my daughter was mixing with anyway, as I had previously seen one mum and her son shop lifting together, but this was at the next level to me. Three kids, hidden in a hollow bush (not very hidden, you could still see them, but not see what they were doing unless you actually peered into the bush) sitting in a huddle, each with a lit cigarette. Two were in my daughters class, one older sibling. No idea where the parents were.

Yes, I told the school, and also removed my daughter.

This has become quite a derail! This thread is about why some church schools are undersubscribed - I am just saying it might be nothing to do with the school, and depends on the demographic they serve.

I am glad those kids were in a small, nurturing church school, I am sure they benefitted from it. However, I didn't want my daughter in the same cohort with children I thought might give her cigarettes or take her shop lifting if they became friends, and I removed her.

I'm just here for the 4/5 year old smokers comments 🤣

Not in this area - two of the four are church schools, one Catholic, one CoE, and people are falling over themselves to get in because they’re clearly the best of the four. They don’t seem to be put off by the religious stuff.

Interesting, where I live we have a regular primary school and a VC school, opposite ends of the village. VC arguably has more facilities but primary is brand new.
Primary is oversubscribed, VC has said they still have places available.

What does VC stand for?

Catholic schools in my area are really hard to get into & always oversubscribed as the attached secondary school is top performing. They require proof of baptism/chapel attendance to get in. I do find the idea of religious school quite outdated to be honest but I know they're still very popular! Although where I live the Catholic schools accept children who are practicing any faith so are mostly made up of Muslim pupils. We do have a very large Muslim/Islamic community here & also have a Jewish school nearby. DD attends a non denominational school.

I’m pretty certain they were not smoking. Toy cigarettes maybe (if you can still get them!) but not real ones

That doesn’t make sense- either they require proof of baptism/chapel attendance or they accept children of any faith. Can’t be both!

But wouldn’t you expect that from a church school?!

Perhaps they were swinging a 'thurible' and from a distance it could have looked like they were smoking?

😂 hilarious

@Unopenedpackofmenssocks the criteria for places will be something along the lines of those children who have proof of baptism first then eventually it will come down to children of other faith.

I'm guessing VC could be village Church.

Re the smoking reception children, could they have been vaping? Still not right, obviously, but I have actually seen parents of a very young child hand them a strawberry vape.

Does that mean 4/5 year olds were walking home without an adult? Then lighting up a fag and sharing it?

It sounded like the reception class kids were lighting up and smoking fags straight after school.

Now you have explained, it was 2 reception class children plus an older child, smoking in a bush in the park outside of school hours.

The latter is more plausible.

5 year olds won't eat anything they find "yucky" but will happily puff on a cigarette? Hmm.

I can kind of get my head around an older child offering two reception aged children fags they had taken behind their parents back as a one-off put of curiosity thing obviously it's still very worrying
But seems rather more likely than a gang of reception aged children regularly getting together for a fag.

I would guess it's simply that parents saw 'new modern school' and 'bigger' and made the assumption that it would have better, newer facilities and more on offer, in terms of activities, trips, breakfast and after school club. People are very attracted to new and modern and better, even if it's only perception.

We've always gone to small village schools (one CofE and one academy - in both cases, we didn't have a choice, first house was only CofE schools for about 15 miles around and second was only academy for even further, unless you went private). But I find that parents have tended to be put off smaller schools, older ones, ones with less modern, big facilities, and with fewer childcare options. Even if the school is better. They want big, more, new.

Now, we personally would prefer a non-church school to a church one (as we aren't Christian), but I wouldn't choose a non-church school over a church one if it wasn't the best school.

Well you would think so wouldn't you, but you DO have to provide baptismal certificate etc if you are Catholic. I'm not well educated on having 'proof' for other faiths but I can tell you my friend had to rush through her daughters baptism after covid as they weren't going to give her a place despite her older son attending the school. And I can also confirm the majority of pupils are muslim, as although it is a Catholic school (think St Bernadette) it is now described as a faith school. It has caused upset with some people who would like their children to go but can't get them in as they don't have proof of faith.

Me too! To be fair, I was once caught eating my parents cigarettes at that age 😆