Do you begrudge high earners?

[cheerscheerscheerstomeyeahcheers]

Do you actually understand what they do and why they earn so much?
Would you be actually willing to put in the time and effort yourself?

I see so much griping about people that earn a lot, but I also see a lot of ignorance about why they earn what they do.

You can over tax high earners, and that is an issue. The UK has one of the highest rates of wealth-flight in the world, which doesn’t just deprive the coffers of tax money, but of investment and economic growth. Capital is mobile, and there are plenty of countries actively aiming to attract the wealthy. The ‘well those selfish arseholes can fuck off then! Fuck them!’ response isn’t actually hurting those it’s aimed at - they’re better than fine and not looking back - it’s hurting those left picking up the tab.

OP said 300k+

The likes of Bono are in their own stratosphere of earnings, like the top 0.0001%. Top 10% starts at people earning £60,000 a year. Not helpful to lump them into the same category.

I certainly do not begrudge anyone who is a high earner. Good luck to them. As long as it is honest work, it can only be a good thing. Whether or not I understand what they do in their job depends on what it is, I understand some and not others. That doesn't matter. We'd all like to have a high salaried position, surely? When I was working, I did not earn a high salary but didn't do badly, sort of middling, and was content with that because the work suited me. My husband was much the same. I honestly have never understood those who resent or begrudge others who earn, have or can do, more than they. That is life.

And still had plenty of money left after paying tax. Win-win.

Top 5% is "only" about £90k. We clearly have a low salary problem, not a high earner problem.

Did anyone claim they didn't? What we have actually seen on this thread about high earners is
unsubstantiated claims of tax dodging
anecdotes about high earners looking down on low earners
accusations of women lying about their earnings because they are on MN during the day
comparisons to Bono and Wayne Rooney!

Individually I don't but in some cases I begrudge a system that rewards some careers disproportionately over others.

My DH is a high earner via PAYE and pays huge amounts in tax and I earn northwards of £70K via PAYE so we both pay our share. Happy to do so.

What gripes me is self employed friends laugh at us for being mugs working PAYE whilst they avoid paying as little tax as possible- take benefits because their accountants keep their taxable income low and they have v expensive cars, multiple holidays and spend their time on golf courses. Also first ones to go to the GP for every single niggle and get annoyed when no appointments.

I think it's helpful to separate the role/ post from the post holder.

Big public sector organisations and charities (whose funding is provided by others as opposed to profits) have processes to evaluate and grade roles. They produce pay bands and pay points based on this. They have a rationale for why each job is paid at the level it is and they apply the same criteria across all roles

Private sector organisations base pay on maximising profits. If they can fill roles cheaply, they will. If paying a high salary increases profits, they will.

The point that people raise about equality of opportunity and who is most likely to get the best paid roles, and whether post holders do their job well is a different matter.

Part of the same issue when FTSE CEOs salaries have exploded since 2008, the rest of us, not so much.

Inequality is really important, IMO.

Agreed. Fingers point at the wrong people imo. Take half the £300k off the upper management, it's not going to trickle down to the cleaners. Only moves upwards.

Your friends’ behaviour is really quite sickening and I don’t know how they can think it’s ok. Do they not want an NHS that they and their loved ones can rely on in times of illness? Schools for their children? A police force that does an effective job or a fire service available is their house is burning down? I couldn’t be friends with them.

"Would you be actually willing to put in the time and effort yourself?"

You could say that about low paying jobs that I expect you think are easy.

It's not about intellectual capability. Some of the roles requiring the highest levels of intellectual capability are not the highest earning, medical, complex research, higher echelons of academia for example. It's usually more about connections, acquired knowledge, interpersonal skills and self promotion. All greatly assisted by rigorous gatekeeping of the roles to a specific demographic, thus keeping the pool deliberately small to maintain that rarity value.

I am very conflicted, it’s definitely made me change my view and don’t think the friendship will last.
It has been a slow drip feed of all the things they write off tax wise that I pay for after tax that is just making it hard to listen too. They won’t be the only ones, and that is what is scary about how much more tax should be raised to help society as a whole.

The company should not put itself in a position where one person leaving would cost millions, and I highly doubt many roles carry that kind of weight anyway.

Not really the begrudging type. I don't even care if you didn't earn it.

Exactly.

How could you generalise and say that you admire or don’t admire high earners based purely on their salary? Having money isn’t admirable, how they got there might be.

I don’t begrudge anyone for earning well but equally they don’t belong on a pedestal purely because they make a good wage.

I think, if you've never been in the position to either be a higher or live with a high earner, you'd probably struggle to understand the time and effort it takes to maintain that wage.

it isn't just a job, it ends up being a lifestyle. Your whole life revolves around work. Families have to fit in, children have to fit in, holidays have to fit in and around work I remember my dh taking his laptop on holiday and working, whilst me and the DC we're sat by the pool. Equally I remember my DD telling me off for using my phone during my youngest Christmas play, as I had to respond to an urgent email.

The time it takes is one thing, but the stress and responsibility is also another part to it. You may not be 'doing the work' but you have overall responsibility for it, and the lives of the people who work for you, so if something goes wrong, your neck is on the chopping board, not to mention people's livelihood, ability to pay mortgages etc are on the line.

One of my son’s friends earns £500k a year. He invests other peoples’ money. That’s a huge responsibility

I earn a high income and i know i don't work any harder than a teacher or nurse for example.

However, i understand its simply supply and demand. What i do is a bit technical and most people find it boring, so there just aren't that many people willing and able to do it, and it needs doing, if not done well it can cost a company millions, so it pays well.

it isn't just a job, it ends up being a lifestyle. Your whole life revolves around work. Families have to fit in, children have to fit in, holidays have to fit in and around work I remember my dh taking his laptop on holiday and working

This isn't always true. Ive never worked on holiday. We have busy season once per year when i'll work a little on the weekend for two, max three weekends on the trot and do 12-14 hours days in the week. The rest of the year its 9-5.30 and my life doesn't revolve around work.

Have you ever had a cleaning job or worked in a factory?

No I don’t care. It’s obvious that some jobs pay way more for the same hours, and that some people’s families will prepare them way better to go for those jobs than others. It’s also obvious that the people who end up at the top often are even not the smartest/most hardworking/“best” people. that’s just a fact of life - you can’t pretend life is fair in any way.

However, I do wish there had been much more education earlier on at school about different types of jobs, what makes money, and why a typically higher earning job is valuable (or not!). There was very little career education beyond school and anything we were taught was very stereotypical black and white - things like “finance makes money but is only suitable for certain people/personalities (men)” and so on. Most people I know invariably ended up doing what their parents did (or wanted them to do). I have some really brilliant friends who have really struggled salary wise post school/uni as they never had proper guidance or support in terms of the next stage of jobs. I recognise there are a lot of structural inequalities but I think the education system could focus way, way more on helping students understand all their options, do work experience etc.