To have found my first mammogram really upsetting?

[YompingJo]

Got a letter through with very basic details if an appointment. Turned up and found the whole thing demeaning. Tiny room, intimidating machine taking up most of it. The radiologist was monosyllabic and bossy and manhandled me into the right position including grabbing each breast and shoving it into position, pushing other bits of my body out of the way, not once asking first. I know it's a necessary procedure, but a bit of sensitivity would have gone a long way, and having the respect to ask for consent before grabbing a breast is a basic consideration. I'm autistic and needed to know much more what to expect beforehand. The letter gave a way to request assistance in the case of SEN, but I don't consider myself to have SEN and didn't know what I'd need until I was right there, so that wasn't any help. There was a QR code for feedback, which I gave but I just feel... invaded and demeaned. AIBU?

Women have to put up with this type of shit - you mean an effective method of screening for breast cancer? What a strange thought process you have.

So how do we figure that the OP’s take on it is actually what happened ? Could it not be that the radiographer was just doing her job as normal ? I’ve been for several mammograms and not very much was said during any of them except for requests to move my arm, turn my head etc - the radiographer pretty much repositioned and moved things out of the way to facilitate the best possible images. The point is, a mammogram speaks for itself - you will be touched and at times it will feel like you’re being manhandled.

I think you need to have higher standards.

Absolutely this.

Nope my standards are incredibly high. You don't need to 'think' anything about them. I am just insightful enough to understand that we are lucky. Nothing in your 'pithy' response - that you think is so punchy and impactful - has counteracted anything I have said so I will stick to my beliefs, thanks.

Totally ridiculous to compare a medical procedure used to screen and identify potential disease to a violation of one's body in the context of an assault. You really need to get a grip.

I really find it amazing how many people don't understand what a comparison is. A comparison doesn't mean you are saying the two things are exactly the same or just as bad as each other. It means there's a point of similarity or contrast that is relevant to what's being discussed.

It's not "totally ridiculous" to compare them at all. It is not saying "this nurse was just like a rapist". The whole point of comparisons is that the two things are NOT the same but the comparison may highlight a particular parallel.
Flying off the handle and getting angry and rude because you don't understand that is tiresome.

There is a clear comparison here with the issue of consent and having things done to your body and whether being there at all means you have consented. It's also a relevant comparison because some (many) women HAVE been sexually assaulted or manhandled without their consent and so the need to make sure patients feel forewarned and in control is really important.

I would argue that someone who's sensitive about the procedure, didn't fully understand what it entailed or indeed anyone who suddenly felt they couldn't cope for whatever reason could call a halt and say they couldn't do it. That's withdrawal of consent. Are you saying that they couldn't and the HCP should force the treatment on someone who said no or was clearly upset?

Thanks for the patronising response. Seriously you are the one who is hard of thinking. Rape is about power, manipulation and control of a person by violating their body, and sense of self. If you think that this can be 'compared' to an informed medical procedure where you are given lots of information to outline exactly how it will take place then I am afraid that your mind employs a very very reductive and immature thought process.

Only OP will know what happened here. If it was really rude and involved grabbing? It needs reporting. If it was professional, matter of fact and positioning? No.

But the issue with a mammogram is IMO there actually is some roughness and discomfort required - they have to pull your breast quite hard and flatten it in a machine. They do have to grab and squeeze and that's why it can be startling and possibly upsetting. That's why kind chat, warning at each stage, recognition that it's unpleasant etc. is helpful and supportive. IME they say things like, "I'm sorry this isn't very pleasant but I just need to pop your breat here and the machine will come down and squeeze it, don't worry it will stop after a second" etc so you know what's happening.

So Marinade because you think there's no comparison, I guess you think I'm wrong and a moral failure to struggle hugely with smears as a result of my own experiences of sexual assault? Even though HCPs themselves fully understand this, and know it to be common? Because they are not the exact same thing and come from totally different intents, so that means one experience is not allowed to renmind you of the other?

And you told me to get a grip, so you were rude and patronising initially.

Three and a half years after the problematic mammogram I had, I don’t go on with life as normal. I have had a subsequent one with a lot of care taken by the staff. But I am daily reminded of that other one because of pain and weakness.

It works in the same way it works for a smear or any other medical appointment. It’s not hard to ask before you touch someone, I’m staggered you have problems understanding that frankly.

I understand that is triggering and I am very sorry for your experience. But I cannot agree with the comparisons that have been drawn with reference to the concept of consent in the context of a rape vs a mammogram. The procedure is undertaken with full transparency and without any coercion which is the opposite of an assault on one's person.

Why are you so against medical staff having to ask before they touch someone, especially when you know it will help a lot of women feel more comfortable?

She's not lucky or privileged to have experienced what she experienced. She deserves the opportunity to give informed consent and to not be manhandled. How many other women has this radiographer done this to, ensuring they'll never go back for another mammogram?

Access to healthcare shouldn't come with feeling like your boundaries have been violated.

Op you also shouldn't be forced to disclose a disability to be treated like a human being but in future you may need to take the SEN option.

You think the experience the op had was done with full transparency? Really?!

It works in the same way it works for a smear or any other medical appointment. It’s not hard to ask before you touch someone, I’m staggered you have problems understanding that frankly

It's not lack of understanding, it's disagreeing with you that it's necessary in the context of someone willingly turning up for a very specific non mandatory medical check

How clueless are you!? Do you not understand anything about nuance?

Nobody is disputing WHAT is done at a mammogram - just HOW it is done. I know that my breasts will need to be placed on a machine. I'm not an idiot!

However, if at any point during the procedure, I don't like HOW my breasts are being placed on the machine, I can absolutely withdraw my consent.

Who the hell are you to say I can't!?

I think it is dogmatic to pursue this line of thinking when the process works so seemlessly for so many people. I have found that the coomments are so damning and critical of the medical staff performing the procedure as to be disrespectful. They are undertaking such an important role with time constraints. Why do you need to add to this additional layer of 'consent' when it is obvious patients are entering of their own free will with an informed mind set if they have read the leaflets provided? When you say that it will help a lot of women feel more comfortable, what is this actually based on? The NHS employs evidence based practice so if the process was so broken then I think it would have been remedied or changed by now?

To be fair to marinade they didn’t say that consent couldn’t be withdrawn at any time during the procedure.

Calm down I did not say you cannot withdraw from the procedure of course you can - but you can do this irrespective of whether your 'consent' was sought explicitly. What on earth are you talking about? I also didn't refer to you as idiot so maybe you are projecting.

Exactly and yet i am the one called clueless and lacking in nuance...

What surprises me is the number of people don't think someone else's experience can be different from their own.
As stated earlier my experience was similar to the OPs.
My appointment came via text, there was no accompanying leaflet.
I've just checked the website links the text directed me to, as I began to wonder whether my memory wasn't right.
No where did it say that the radiographer would need to touch me - either my breasts or any part of me.
It said the procedure might be uncomfortable.
My radiographer knew it was my first time because she asked me as she was at the reception desk.
She gave no hello when I went into the room. Just told me to take my top off and go to the machine. She gave no indication of what she would do. Just gave very abrupt instructions of move here, hold that etc.
There was no personal interaction at all.

I can quite believe the OPs account.
Equally I believe others that say they had a different experience. I hope that maybe next time mine and the OPs might be better too.

What was lacking on the transparency front, please do enlighten me?

Then surely the issue of 'initially' offering consent is irrelevant, which is exactly what I said in the first place?
Not sure why you needed to comment, to be honest.

I think there's a few unfair comments here.
Being lucky to get this kind of scanning for free is a separate issue to the fact that the radiographer had no people skills and didn't maintain this lady's dignity at all.
This would have upset me too. I sometimes ask for a chaperone to intimate procedures - is this an option for next time? No idea why but the second I step foot in a hospital my heart rate goes crazy!